Ahmaud Arbery; racist killing and attempted cover up.

[JimL]

I suppose you could try and rationalize it that way, but the fact is, he didn't shoot when he had the perfect opportunity, so unless the prosecution has some very good evidence to make their case, it's going to be almost impossible to spin that as "intent to kill".

When did he have the perfect opprtunity to shoot, when Arbery was on the run? Besides, Arbery is not a mind reader, he has no idea what these thugs are up to, all he knows is that a couple of armed yahoo's are chasing him down. And they had no right to threaten him thusly in the first place. If someone is in armed pursuit of you and then cut you off and jumped out of the truck with shotgun in hand, you'd be very concerned about what may be awaiting you hiding behind the front of the truck. Arbery had to make a decision as to what to do, and the fact that he ended up dead doesn't make his decision the wrong one. For all he knew he may have ended up dead no matter how he reacted to the situation. He was probably exhausted from running as well, which may have been a factor in his losing the battle over the shotgun. Tell me this, if Arbery's punch knocked McMichael to the ground, hitting his head on the concrete and killing him in that situation, do you think he would have been convicted of murder? I think it highly unlikely, it would have been seen as defending himself from a couple of threatening thugs.

[Mountain Man]

It is not uncommon for black police inside the city of Atlanta to stop whites and ask them what they're doing driving in any of the poorer black neighborhoods. They pretty much assume that if you're white you must be looking for drugs or prostitutes

An interesting example of racial profiling.

When I worked for a Christian TV station, we were shooting video for a show about street evangelism. We happened to be in a "black" neighborhood, and an older black fellow drove up in a pickup truck and said, "Three white dudes with a TV camera in THIS neighborhood? Y'all must be shooting 'Survivor'!"

[Leonhard]

An interesting example of racial profiling.

When I worked for a Christian TV station, we were shooting video for a show about street evangelism. We happened to be in a "black" neighborhood, and an older black fellow drove up in a pickup truck and said, "Three white dudes with a TV camera in THIS neighborhood? Y'all must be shooting 'Survivor'!"

I have to admit this caused me to laugh.

[Mountain Man]

When did he have the perfect opprtunity to shoot...

Did you watch the video? Arbery was running straight towards them for at least 10-seconds. When he was within about 20-feet (it's hard to judge the exact distance), the younger McMichaels raised his shotgun, and Arbery continued to run straight ahead for another three seconds. Three seconds to aim at an essentially stationary target (no lateral movement) is pretty much a gimme shot, especially with a shotgun -- and he had lots of time before that when he could have drawn a bead and fired, but he kept his weapon lowered until Arbery was literally seconds away. Again, that does not say "intent to kill" to me.

[JimL]

He wanted to know why I was in a "black neighborhood" and I told him I was looking for a tattoo parlor, if you must know.



It was one armed man, and he followed me for 4 blocks in my car before following me into a 7-11 where he demanded I stop and turn around and answer why I was there. He displayed his weapon tucked in his belt, then suggested that I leave the store and get back to the "white side" of Omaha if I knew what was good for me.



Satisfied?

The same thing didn't happen to you as did happen to Arbery, then.

[oxmixmudd]

The same thing didn't happen to you as did happen to Arbery, then.

no - not even close.

[JimL]

Did you watch the video? Arbery was running straight towards them for at least 10-seconds. When he was within about 20-feet (it's hard to judge the exact distance), the younger McMichaels raised his shotgun, and Arbery continued to run straight ahead for another three seconds. Three seconds to aim at an essentially stationary target (no lateral movement) is pretty much a gimme shot, especially with a shotgun -- and he had lots of time before that when he could have drawn a bead and fired, but he kept his weapon lowered until Arbery was literally seconds away. Again, that does not say "intent to kill" to me.

So, 20 feet away and McMichaels raises his shotgun and points it at Arbery, and you don't think that's a physical threat in which Arbery was in the right to defend himself?

[Bill the Cat]

The same thing didn't happen to you as did happen to Arbery, then.

Because I didn't try to get his gun.

[JimL]

Because I didn't try to get his gun.

Because it wasn't 3 armed men chasing you down, and you can't even know that he was following you. How would you know that? He didn't even have a gun on you, he simply pulled into the same parking lot as you and asked you a question. I'll bet he was a nice guy, probably letting you know you weren't in the safest of neighborhoods.

[Bill the Cat]

Because it wasn't 3 armed men chasing you down, and you can't even know that he was following you.

I know he was following me. He followed me INTO the store and displayed his gun to me.

How would you know that? He didn't even have a gun on you, he simply pulled into the same parking lot as you and asked you a question.

He directly threatened me inside the store, you ignorant twit. You weren't there. You know nothing.

I'll bet he was a nice guy, probably letting you know you weren't in the safest of neighborhoods.

Again, you weren't there and you didn't experience it. Now go jump off a cliff you asshat.

[oxmixmudd]

Because I didn't try to get his gun.

And he still pretends to be clueless. Maybe BtC is just that clueless he thinks what he described is somehow similar to being violently chased on foot by not 1 but 3 men in trucks actively cutting him off, even hitting him. Which reminds me there are not two lethal weapons here, there are 4. It is not all that hard to kill someone with a truck.

Now I am sure what happened to BtC was scary, it would scare anyone. But what Arbery faced was an order of of magnitude (at least) more extreme, more aggressive.

[Mountain Man]

So, 20 feet away and McMichaels raises his shotgun and points it at Arbery, and you don't think that's a physical threat in which Arbery was in the right to defend himself?

Way to change the subject. So I guess you agree that the actions of the McMichaels were not consistent with someone with an intent to kill.

As for whether or not Arbery had the legal right to defend himself (and I don't know), he went about it in the stupidest way possible.

This is not a simple case. Georgia law, as I understand it, says that anybody who causes someone's death, even without intent, during the commission of a crime gets an automatic life sentence. But I'm not certain the McMichaels broke the law. I suspect we won't have any answers until the trial, but my hunch is that nobody is going to jail. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[MaxVel]

I am not sure you are describing what actually happened.

Wasn't trying to.

[MaxVel]

Then it looks like your issue is with Georgia law, not the McMichaels.

[JimL]

Way to change the subject. So I guess you agree that the actions of the McMichaels were not consistent with someone with an intent to kill.

I didn't agree to that at all, but it doesn't matter what I think, it's what Arbery was thinking at the time that counts, and it's obvious that anyone in his shoes would have been worried. He had just been chased in circles, he turned back to avoid them and they circled back around for him again with a second car trying to block his way and apparently running into him in the process.

As for whether or not Arbery had the legal right to defend himself (and I don't know), he went about it in the stupidest way possible.

Of course he had the right to defend himself, 2 armed white men chasing him down for no known reason. He tried to flee, he wasn't looking for fight, but he probably felt at that point that he no longer had a choice.

This is not a simple case. Georgia law, as I understand it, says that anybody who causes someone's death, even without intent, during the commission of a crime gets an automatic life sentence. But I'm not certain the McMichaels broke the law. I suspect we won't have any answers until the trial, but my hunch is that nobody is going to jail. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Open and shut, but I wouldn't doubt that they are aquitted anyway.