Coronavirus Outbreak...

[seer]

There is a difference between a person named "Guido" (and why any Italian mother would so name their child I will never know) and "guido" used as an ethnic slur, as you did.

Guido is a slang term for a lower-class or working-class urban Italian American. The guido stereotype is multi-faceted. Originally, it was used as a demeaning term for Italian Americans in general. More recently, it has come to refer to Italian Americans who conduct themselves in a thuggish, overtly macho manner.

https://www.definitions.net/definition/GUIDO

You can also look at both of these, which tell the same story:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=guido

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_(slang)

Most (all?) Italians I know, which includes my entire extended family on my wife's side, would not take kindly to being called a "guido." Out of curiosity, I pinged several of them this morning and asked how they would react/respond to be called "guido." The response was pretty strongly in the negative across the board. But I am not surprised that you both use it (unnecessarily) and defend its use. As I predicted...

I'll leave the last word to you. Bigotry discussions on this forum are largely pointless.

Hey Homer, I'm Italian with an Italian family and grew up in a largely immigrant Italian neighborhood. And being called a Guido was no big deal - being called a WOP or Guinea was.

[seer]

Yep - I read it. I stand by my observation: they covered up and they mismanaged. There is nothing here that says "knowingly sent to the U.S." or even implies it. You are adding that interpretation to the article.

I noticed you also cut out and did not respond to the first part of my post.

So allowing it to spread to other countries with full knowledge is not 'knowingly sent?' And what point were you making in the part I deleted? Are you denying that the Swine flu originated in Mexico?

2009 swine flu pandemic originated in Mexico, researchers discover

The 2009 swine H1N1 flu pandemic -- responsible for more than 17,000 deaths worldwide -- originated in pigs from a very small region in central Mexico, a research team headed by investigators at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai is reporting.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0627160935.htm

[oxmixmudd]

Really Jim, when was the last time the US knowingly sent a deadly virus to the rest of the world?

China did not 'send' this virus into the world seer. Which is the point. That is a false, and dangerous way to characterize what has happened. The virus evolved first in Chine and then it spread. That is what virus' do. Especially in a world and an age where almost every citizen is less that 24 hours away from almost every other person in the world. (for the nit pickers here, there are clearly some remote areas of the planet that can't be reached in 24 hours time)

US citizens have carried this same virus into other countries, just as Chinese citizens carried this virus to other countries. Indeed, some of our own citizens also brought this same virus into this country from China!

And - indeed for the same reason - a government's attempt to play it down and government agency mistakes acting on it.

[carpedm9587]

So allowing it to spread to other countries with full knowledge is not 'knowingly sent?' And what point were you making in the part I deleted? Are you denying that the Swine flu originated in Mexico?

2009 swine flu pandemic originated in Mexico, researchers discover

The 2009 swine H1N1 flu pandemic -- responsible for more than 17,000 deaths worldwide -- originated in pigs from a very small region in central Mexico, a research team headed by investigators at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai is reporting.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0627160935.htm

So I now have read your article for the third time. Once again, it supports the assertion that they suppressed information, that they mismanaged the outbreak, but not the assertion that they "knowingly sent it to the U.S." If I'm going to lay blame, it will be for things I actually have evidence for. The Chinese government is well documented for being protective and for suppressing any form of dissent or any information that might cast a bad light on the government. It is just as likely that they were hyper focused on suppressing the news and trying to get the situation controlled so as not to "lose face" as it is that they "knowingly sent it to the U.S.." When there is more than one possible interpretation for a series of events, claiming you know which one it is without adequate evidence to back it up is simply biased thinking.

So what we know, from this article, is:

- China mismanaged their outbreak
- China suppressed news about the outbreak
- China denied the outbreak was a serious issue
- China jailed people who attempted to whistleblow

As a result, the outbreak spread. What we do not know is that they "knowingly sent it to the U.S."

But then again...

- Trump mismanaged the outbreak
- Trump made false announcements about the outbreak - spreading disinformation at a critical time, and tried to classify information related to the outbreak
- Trump denied the outbreak was a serious issue for weeks - and his lackeys/base parroted him
- Trump did NOT jail anyone that I know of.

What the heck, 3 out of 4 ain't bad...

And who knows how many people have been infected, including people who traveled to other countries from the U.S., because of Trump's choices...?

And this horse has been adequately beaten. I have offered all of the arguments I have, and now I am repeating myself. I leave you to your opinions and the last word.


ETA: I neglected to respond to the second part of your post. The new source you provided is MUCH better than Wikipedia. As far as I can tell, it is legit and I hold it in higher regard than abcnews. I accept that the flu started in Mexico, and thank you for providing the better data.

[carpedm9587]

China did not 'send' this virus into the world seer. But US citizens have carried this same virus into other countries, just as Chinese citizens did. And for the same reason - a governments attempt to play it down.

You are SO much more succinct than I...

[seer]

China did not 'send' this virus into the world seer. But US citizens have carried this same virus into other countries, just as Chinese citizens did. And for the same reason - a governments attempt to play it down.

Nonsense Jim, China could have shut down air travel weeks before they did - so they knowingly did this - period. And no the US was not knowingly allowing our citizens to infect other countries.

[rogue06]

There is a difference between a person named "Guido" (and why any Italian mother would so name their child I will never know) and "guido" used as an ethnic slur, as you did.

Guido is a slang term for a lower-class or working-class urban Italian American. The guido stereotype is multi-faceted. Originally, it was used as a demeaning term for Italian Americans in general. More recently, it has come to refer to Italian Americans who conduct themselves in a thuggish, overtly macho manner.

https://www.definitions.net/definition/GUIDO

You can also look at both of these, which tell the same story:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=guido

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_(slang)

Most (all?) Italians I know, which includes my entire extended family on my wife's side, would not take kindly to being called a "guido." Out of curiosity, I pinged several of them this morning and asked how they would react/respond to be called "guido." The response was pretty strongly in the negative across the board. But I am not surprised that you both use it (unnecessarily) and defend its use. As I predicted...

I'll leave the last word to you. Bigotry discussions on this forum are largely pointless.

Please show where I called him "a guido" rather than "Guido"

And I already explained why I called him Guido in case you missed it. Or are you deliberately ignoring that so you can continue to feign outrage?

[oxmixmudd]

You are SO much more succinct than I...

well ... I was. I couldn't resist the urge to expand my response a bit ...

[oxmixmudd]

Nonsense Jim, China could have shut down air travel weeks before they did - so they knowingly did this - period. And no the US was not knowingly allowing our citizens to infect other countries.

seer - there is not point in this beyond what has already been said. It is foolish of you to take this tack of trying to lay blame. It serves no purpose.

[Darth Executor]

You are SO much more succinct than I...

I don't know how much the Chinese government is paying you and ox but whatever it is, you should ask for a raise!

[carpedm9587]

Please show where I called him "a guido" rather than "Guido"

And I already explained why I called him Guido in case you missed it. Or are you deliberately ignoring that so you can continue to feign outrage?

You asked a question, so I'll respond.

No - I saw it. Mistakenly using a slur doesn't mean you didn't use it, Rogue. And all I have seen since your post is a defense of it. All of this could have been solved with a simple "I used the wrong word - my bad. I did not intend to use an ethnic slur and apologize for any offense it may have caused." But no - defend and protect and justify.

For the record, I'm not personally offended. I'm not Italian. My wife may be, but I'll let her defend herself. I simply pointed out that inserting the ethnic slur into the name was unnecessary and only intended to insult. Even if you change it to Fredo, that doesn't change. You apparently like to insult. So be it...

Now - I'm done - whether or not you ask another question. The original insertion was more than likely an act of trolling, and I fell right into it. 'Nuff said.

[carpedm9587]

I don't know how much the Chinese government is paying you and ox but whatever it is, you should ask for a raise!

Nowhere near enough...

[carpedm9587]

well ... I was. I couldn't resist the urge to expand my response a bit ...

I'd drop it. Seer is clearly using two different sets of rules to assess the U.S. and China. I am not clear how he can internally justify this, but it's not the first time.

[rogue06]

seer - there is not point in this beyond what has already been said. It is foolish of you to take this tack of trying to lay blame. It serves no purpose.

While I disagree with seer about blaming Chinese culture (after all, should we blame our love of hamburgers and steaks for Mad Cow disease?) we should definitely not forget what the Chinese government did and just shrug it off.

[Darth Executor]

seer - there is not point in this beyond what has already been said. It is foolish of you to take this tack of trying to lay blame. It serves no purpose.

The Chinese could've stopped the outbreak at its inception. Instead they lied and allowed most of the world to get infected. This is not comparable to Americans (or anybody else) travelling and infecting people after knowledge of the virus is out (although it is worth pointing out that Trump shut down travel from China while the Chinese-owned Democrats were busy crying about how rayciss it is early into the pandemic).

The Chinese are 100% to blame to the pandemic and whether they intentionally spread the disease or not is largely immaterial at this point. It is their fault and it's bizarre anyone would try to absolve them of their culpability.

I know you probably have quotas to meet to earn your yuan but try to put more effort into your arguments.