Coronavirus Outbreak...

[carpedm9587]

Full disclosure: please note that I stripped the images from this response. I don't find them particularly helpful. If you want to see them, see Rogue's original post.

They've got their partners in crime, much of the American MSM helping them.

For instance the New York Times

First, since my wife is Italian, I recognize "guido" for the ethnic slur that it is, which doesn't reflect very well on you. It's a bit hard to successfully deny bigotry and racism and complain about all of the people pointing it out when you are using that kind of language. A person of conscience, recognizing they have used an ethnic slur, would probably apologize. My guess is that you come from the Trump school of apology, and will simply double down on it - probably even use it again. Oh well....

Second, Cuomo was not saying that he denied the virus came from China. He was challenging Trump on his use of "Chinese Virus" or "China Virus" by noting that this virus could have arisen anywhere - it just happened to arise in China. And for those who rant on about how many viruses arise in China, do the math. The population of China is over 1.386B. The population of the world is over 7.53B. China has over 18.4% of the world's population. They have about 4 times as many people as the U.S. in a geographic area that is roughly the same size as the U.S., ergo higher population density and more opportunity for viruses to arise. That doesn't mean they didn't handle it badly. Clearly, the evidence suggests that they did. But that is the Chinese government, not the Chinese people.

And what happened yesterday when Trump fielded questions from the MSM after announcing the release of a number of drugs with the potential for treating the disease and maybe slowing the transmission? What sort of questions did he get? A self-righteous PBS NewsHour correspondent, Yamiche Alcindor, asking whether it was true that someone in his Administration once referred to it as "Kung flu." That is their priority.

You paint a binary condition when no such condition holds. I think the press is capable of chasing down all issues, and more examples of racism and ethnicism in the highest ranks of our government is also an issue - though perhaps not to you, given your easy use of "guido."

After every press conference the past few days representatives of the MSM are virtually tripping over each other to be the first to indignantly demand why Trump refers to it as the Chinese coronavirus. Wednesday he was asked the same question three times. His answer was spot on: "Because it comes from China." Duh.

Trump knows this kind of language appeals to his base, and gets many on the left's knickers in a knot. He's a troll and he's trolling the press, liberals, and anyone who doesn't agree with him. It's not more complicated than that. There is no reason not to use a perfectly neutral name for the virus, like it's actual name - but Trump likes to sow division. He's very good at it. And he's being successful at it once again.

And that is a simple incontrovertible fact in spite of the New York Times and CNN helping to disseminate blatantly obvious propaganda from the Chinese government which concealed what was going on, destroyed evidence like lab samples and tests in order to continue hiding it and "disappearing" those in China who spoke out (with some of them now dead).

Still, Trump's wholly accurate response became a major topic out outraged discussion on various news programs.

A response can be accurate, and still inappropriate. However, I have learned that the bigotry discussion on this forum largely falls on deaf ears...so

Wednesday night on MSNBC's 11th Hour the thoroughly disgraced Brian Williams played the tape of Trump making reference to the virus originating in China while some members of his panel shook their heads in obvious disgust. Time magazine columnist Ian Bremmer posited the idea that Trump is only blaming China because he can't blame Obama, although later did admit that the Chicom coronavirus did in fact originate in China.

As for Williams he added that Trump was calling it what it is because he has a "need to blame" and "need[s] to attribute troubles to another source."

And yesterday sanctimonious woke twits on NBC continued to push the narrative.

On that network's morning program the Today Show one of their correspondents Tom Costello scolded Trump sniffing that "the virus knows no borders and there is no racial association with this virus." Of course this ignores the fact that it does have a country of origin -- China. And the senior international correspondent for Today vied for the title of biggest Chicom propagandist by pontificating that the Chinese ought to be thanked by "Western Europe and America by delaying the arrival the coronavirus here."

Yeah - and I do hope they keep highlighting this kind of stuff each and every time it happens. And I hope Trump keeps doing it. It continually reinforces what kind of man he is, and keeps the left outraged that we have this kind of man in the oval office. Imagine - at a time of heightened crisis, when we need all people pulling in the same direction, he intentionally trolls with a phrase he know his base will love and the left will react to. Way to go, Mr. Trump. Good effort at unity there. If he had simply stuck with "Coronavirus" or "Covid-19," none of this reaction would have occurred and the focus would be on the virus.

But he knows that. He's no fool. It's what he actually wants. And it is why people of good conscience should band together to get him out of that office on 11/3.

ETA: Credit where credit is due. The administration just pushed tax filing back to 7/15. I think that's generally a good move, allowing those who owe to hang on to their money for a bit longer and letting people focus on something other than their taxes in the coming weeks. I'm not 100% sure about the longer term benefits - if the money is owed, 3 months won't make a lot of difference. But perhaps it will allow time for the government to decide on how it wants to address the economy.

[oxmixmudd]

Jim, this is not the first time China has sent us a deadly virus. How many more do we need? And it is right and good to blame China. And haven't you been criticizing Trump through this whole thing?

China didn't 'send' us the virus. It evolved there and spread here. This is not something you 'blame' on someone. Any more than you 'blame' an African nation for ebola. If you want to blame it on something, blame it on sin. But remember, we are all equally afflicted.

This is just a racist/xenophoic sort of mindset. It's not us vs them. It's just the world we live in and the fact that in the age of airplanes and the internet we are all just hours away from everyone else. Viruses evolve, and they sometimes cross human/animal boundaries. Do you wish the world to blame the UK for the evolution of anti-biotic resistant bacteria like MRSA? Or the middle east for MERS?

[oxmixmudd]

I posted this earlier, but I have been tracking it. Germany continues to outperform the rest of the world in mortality, though their control of spread is not much better or worse than the U.S. I keep wondering what the magic is. As of 9:43 AM (about half an hour ago), this was the state of things:

Using the formula Deaths/Total Cases = Mortality (and yes, I know that is an overly simplistic model for determining an actual mortality rate this early in the pandemic - but it still provides room for comparison and the numbers should close in on the actual mortality rate as the pandemic continues)

• World: 10,038/246,276 = 4.08%
• China: 3,253/81,250 = 4.00% (and they are reputedly near the end of their pandemic, though I wonder about accurate reporting)
• Italy: no data available
• Iran: 1,284/18,407 = 6.98%
• Spain: 833/18,077 = 4.61%
• Germany: 44/16,290 = 0.27%
• U.S.: 205/14,250 = 1.44%
• France: 371/10,891 = 3.41%
• S. Korea: 94/8,652 = 1.09%

I keep asking myself, what is Germany doing differently? Reporting? Treatment? Testing? I would truly love to know. I would think any world leader looking at these numbers would be picking up the phone and asking - but I have heard of no such exchanges (which doesn't say they aren't happening), but why wouldn't a leader tell the population, "we're seeing a success story and digging into best practices."

That 1.44% number for the U.S. is concerning. If you put it together with California's 56% projection, and if that projection holds nationwide, it translates to over 2.6M deaths in the U.S., a number that some experts have been putting forward as a possibility for some time now. I truly hope people are taking this very seriously and doing all that the experts are advising, so that projection never manifests.

I don't believe there is anything special about Germany, they are just early in the exponential growth of the pandemic and so a good many patients have not hit the serious phase of the disease. If it holds 2 to 3 weeks from now, then we have more reason to believe we need to try to understand why.

[carpedm9587]

China didn't 'send' us the virus. It evolved there and spread here. This is not something you 'blame' on someone. Any more than you 'blame' an African nation for ebola. If you want to blame it on something, blame it on sin. But remember, we are all equally afflicted.

Can I blame sin for Trump?

[carpedm9587]

I don't believe there is anything special about Germany, they are just early in the exponential growth of the pandemic and so a good many patients have not hit the serious phase of the disease. If it holds 2 to 3 weeks from now, then we have more reason to believe we need to try to understand why.

Fair enough - I agree there are a lot of variables at play, and my simplistic math equations don't capture any of that. I'll keep monitoring if for no other reason than I am fascinated by it.

[seer]

China didn't 'send' us the virus. It evolved there and spread here. This is not something you 'blame' on someone. Any more than you 'blame' an African nation for ebola. If you want to blame it on something, blame it on sin. But remember, we are all equally afflicted.

Of course we blame them. They lied about it after they knew it was a problem and still let their people fly all over the world. Stop being a Commie propagandist and read these:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-blame/608332/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...yet-left-wild/

They are completely culpable...

[carpedm9587]

Just updating because the Italian numbers are in.

Using the formula Deaths/Total Cases = Mortality

• World: 10,067/247,400 = 4.07%
• China: 3,253/81,250 = 4.00% (they are reputedly near the end of their pandemic, though I wonder about accurate reporting. The numbers are unchanged for days.)
• Italy: 3,405/41,035 = 8.30% (the situation there is very sad)
• Iran: 1,284/18,407 = 6.98% (very sad here too)
• Spain: 833/18,077 = 4.61%
• Germany: 44/16,290 = 0.27%
• U.S.: 205/14,250 = 1.44%
• France: 371/10,891 = 3.41%
• S. Korea: 94/8,652 = 1.09%

[oxmixmudd]

Can I blame sin for Trump?

Please do. He's at least as culpable for the spread here as China is.

[oxmixmudd]

Just updating because the Italian numbers are in.

Using the formula Deaths/Total Cases = Mortality

• World: 10,067/247,400 = 4.07%
• China: 3,253/81,250 = 4.00% (they are reputedly near the end of their pandemic, though I wonder about accurate reporting. The numbers are unchanged for days.)
• Italy: 3,405/41,035 = 8.30% (the situation there is very sad)
• Iran: 1,284/18,407 = 6.98% (very sad here too)
• Spain: 833/18,077 = 4.61%
• Germany: 44/16,290 = 0.27%
• U.S.: 205/14,250 = 1.44%
• France: 371/10,891 = 3.41%
• S. Korea: 94/8,652 = 1.09%

unfortunately - we are on the same path as Italy, and if the same sort of basic ignorance of the situation that lives on this site is whispering in Trump's ear, it is not likely to change.

[carpedm9587]

Of course we blame them. They lied about it after they knew it was a problem and still let their people fly all over the world. Stop being a Commie propagandist and read these:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-blame/608332/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...yet-left-wild/

They are completely culpable...

So, I agree with Jim - the Chinese did not "send" this to us, anymore than our country "sent" it to any country that one our infected citizens flew to and infected someone else. "Sent" implies intention. I do agree, however, that the Chinese mismanaged the virus, which permitted it to spread in a way that then largely defied control. If they had listened to that first alarm instead of jailing him, things might have gone differently. So there is culpability for their mismanagement, just as there is culpability for our own mismanagement and downplaying it for weeks while our people blithely infected one another and any other nation they might have traveled to.

Trump screwed things up. He cannot undo past decisions, though he should be held responsible for them and I hope that will happen on 11/3. The question is, how will he do in the coming weeks. His "conversion" to "this is a problem" is fairly new. As late as March 14th he was boldly claiming "we have it under control" and "it will just disappear, like magic."

[oxmixmudd]

Of course we blame them. They lied about it after they knew it was a problem and still let their people fly all over the world. Stop being a Commie propagandist and read these:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-blame/608332/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...yet-left-wild/

They are completely culpable...

Seer - we are just as culpable as china on so many fronts just like this one. Each nation has elements of culture that present a potential danger to themselves and others.

This is a stupid path to follow. We need to work together, not create more tension between nations.

[seer]

Please do. He's at least as culpable for the spread here as China is.

I thought we were supposed to stop pointing fingers Jim?

[oxmixmudd]

So, I agree with Jim - the Chinese did not "send" this to us, anymore than our country "sent" it to any country that one our infected citizens flew to and infected someone else. "Sent" implies intention. I do agree, however, that the Chinese mismanaged the virus, which permitted it to spread in a way that then largely defied control. If they had listened to that first alarm instead of jailing him, things might have gone differently. So there is culpability for their mismanagement, just as there is culpability for our own mismanagement and downplaying it for weeks while our people blithely infected one another and any other nation they might have traveled to.

Trump screwed things up. He cannot undo past decisions, though he should be held responsible for them and I hope that will happen on 11/3. The question is, how will he do in the coming weeks. His "conversion" to "this is a problem" is fairly new. As late as March 14th he was boldly claiming "we have it under control" and "it will just disappear, like magic."

Exactly.

[oxmixmudd]

I thought we were supposed to stop pointing fingers Jim?

Lol! It was a joke seer. On you in fact. IOW, if we were to act like you are on this, we would be justified in blaming Trump (see above).

I'll try not to forget the [sarcasm] tags next time ...

[carpedm9587]

unfortunately - we are on the same path as Italy, and if the same sort of basic ignorance of the situation that lives on this site is whispering in Trump's ear, it is not likely to change.

Well - there are signs of action. The news about the ventilators is good. Testing is finally beginning, so I guess we can say "better late than never." Governors are stepping up to fill the void left by Washington. But Trump has left little room to wiggle on the economy. The fed rate was slashed to 0% with almost no impact on the market (although, to be fair, we don't know how bad Monday would have been without the cut). But now the only way to cut rates more is to go into negative territory. The deficit was already near $1T, so there is no way to create a stimulus without ginormous deficits with no historic precedence that I am aware of. And the projected numbers for all economic indicators are, as one pundit put it, "approaching apocalyptic." By leaving themselves with little wiggle room, exactly what economists were warning about has happened: we have an economic crisis and a badly limited tool set to respond.

The only silver lining I can see is that Trump's boasts about the economy are now useless to his campaign. I'm sure he will spend a lot of time blaming the coronavirus, but it will not change people's day-to-day lives and, if life is in the toilet in November, history suggests that many will vote for a change.

So how are your 401K's now?