Coronavirus Outbreak...

[mikewhitney]

Symbolic occasional behavior is all the Republicans and some churches are willing to do sponsoring super spreading events.

Source: https://www.cbs17.com/community/health/coronavirus/new-data-more-covid-19-clusters-in-nc-coming-from-social-gatherings-religious-services/

New data: More COVID-19 clusters in NC coming from social gatherings, religious services

CORONAVIRUS
by: Colleen Quigley

According to a report from the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services, COVID-19 cases associated with clusters in religious gatherings have increased since mid-September. Cluster-associated cases at social gatherings like parties, weddings, and funerals increased in September.

The greatest number of cluster-associated cases have been reported at meat and poultry processing plants with 3,842 cases, according to DHHS. Colleges and universities reported the second largest number of cluster-associated cases with 1,959. That is followed by 1,180 cluster-associated cases at religious gatherings.

The most cluster-associated deaths have been reported at meat and poultry processing plants at 19. There were 18 cluster-related deaths been reported at religious gatherings, followed by 10 at independent living facilities.


DHHS said the data are limited to clusters voluntarily reported or identified through contact tracing, and therefor could be an under representation.

© Copyright Original Source

I'm not sure what you were trying to point out. However, the thing that stands out so well is how few deaths occurred in the clusters they noted. This is hardly an epidemic level. But I'm glad you finally switched sides.

The other thing we have to remember is that the number of cases means nothing. Or the other way to view it is that the number of cases show that this is not as deadly as first predicted.

Of course the article, as usual omits key information on who was being surveilled. So the significance and accurate of the data are not known. Plus, there is the concern that these contact tracers are improperly putting attention on church groups. This is a power not authorized to the governments in America. Certainly, you have presented many sickening issues in your post.

[Mountain Man]

The local schools are making my kids attend gym class with masks on, and they're complaining about how difficult it is to run and exercise while you're stifled, and how all the kids in the class have to regularly remove their masks just so they can get a decent breath of air.

This is the "new normal", apparently.

[shunyadragon]

Welcome to tweb.

Things that seem obvious are not always so. I have only heard it mentioned about flu and influenza deaths being reduced to near nothing since about the time of the start of the covid-19 thing. If this was accurate, then you should try adjusting the chart by reduction of the covid-19 deaths by "normal" flu and influenza numbers while increasing the non-covid-19 deaths by the amount just subtracted from covid-19. One important thing here is that the flu symptoms have mostly been treated as covid-19 cases in the hospitals. And many people report inaccurate death certificates of their relatives -- who were marked as covid-19 deaths but had died from other causes.

Your source as a whole does not dispute 216,000+ fatalities due to COVID-19.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm?s_cid=mm6942e2_w

What is already known about this topic?

As of October 15, 216,025 deaths from COVID-19 have been reported in the United States; however, this might underestimate the total impact of the pandemic on mortality.

What is added by this report?

Overall, an estimated 299,028 excess deaths occurred from late January through October 3, 2020, with 198,081 (66%) excess deaths attributed to COVID-19. The largest percentage increases were seen among adults aged 25–44 years and among Hispanic or Latino persons.

What are the implications for public health practice?

These results inform efforts to prevent mortality directly or indirectly associated with the COVID-19 pandemic, such as efforts to minimize disruptions to health care.

© Copyright Original Source

[oxmixmudd]

I'm not sure what you were trying to point out. However, the thing that stands out so well is how few deaths occurred in the clusters they noted. This is hardly an epidemic level. But I'm glad you finally switched sides.

The other thing we have to remember is that the number of cases means nothing. Or the other way to view it is that the number of cases show that this is not as deadly as first predicted.

Of course the article, as usual omits key information on who was being surveilled. So the significance and accurate of the data are not known. Plus, there is the concern that these contact tracers are improperly putting attention on church groups. This is a power not authorized to the governments in America. Certainly, you have presented many sickening issues in your post.

19 / 3842 = 0.5%
18 / 1180 = 1.5%

These are in line with the numbers regularly reported whitney as the expected mortality for Covid 19. They are the numbers that defined 'pandemic' - Especially the 1.5%, which if we didn't work to stop could kill over a million people. Better treatments, younger populations vs older populations, these are all right where they are supposed to be. And they are NOT the numbers you regularly try to foist onto this forum.

[mikewhitney]

19 / 3842 = 0.5%
18 / 1180 = 1.5%

These are in line with the numbers regularly reported whitney as the expected mortality for Covid 19. They are the numbers that defined 'pandemic' - Especially the 1.5%, which if we didn't work to stop could kill over a million people. Better treatments, younger populations vs older populations, these are all right where they are supposed to be. And they are NOT the numbers you regularly try to foist onto this forum.

The numbers are meaningless since we don't have sufficient information about anything here. Even if we assumed these were whole and complete, this data would only be showing where they looked. It excludes all the situations where people were not infected by religious gatherings. I really don't like bad and insufficient data.

[shunyadragon]

The numbers are meaningless since we don't have sufficient information about anything here. Even if we assumed these were whole and complete, this data would only be showing where they looked. It excludes all the situations where people were not infected by religious gatherings. I really don't like bad and insufficient data.

See Post #4263

[oxmixmudd]

The numbers are meaningless since we don't have sufficient information about anything here. Even if we assumed these were whole and complete, this data would only be showing where they looked. It excludes all the situations where people were not infected by religious gatherings. I really don't like bad and insufficient data.

They are quite meaningful MWhitney, but you don't seem to grasp their meaning. They show that when people get sick in churches, or at meat packing plants, the likelihood that infection will end their lives is the same as it is everywhere else and in line with the statistics seen in other environments. IOW, if you are in a religious gathering or a meat packing plant and someone around you has COVID, then if you catch it you have about a 1 or 2 in 100 chance of dying from it. How many people will catch COVID-19 from someone infected with it is a related to how infectious it is and whether transmission mitigations (like masks or social distancing) are in play. It is more infectious than the flu, less infections than the measles. It's mode of transmission is still not completely clear, but we know the virus can survive in very small droplets much longer than required to move from person to person in these sorts of environments - especially when masks or social distancing are not in play.

Trying to understand why you think the above doesn't imply we need to put transmission mitigations in place is an exercise in futility, but you are wrong about it nevertheless.

[mikewhitney]

They are quite meaningful MWhitney, but you don't seem to grasp their meaning. They show that when people get sick in churches, or at meat packing plants, the likelihood that infection will end their lives is the same as it is everywhere else and in line with the statistics seen in other environments. IOW, if you are in a religious gathering or a meat packing plant and someone around you has COVID, then if you catch it you have about a 1 or 2 in 100 chance of dying from it. How many people will catch COVID-19 from someone infected with it is a related to how infectious it is and whether transmission mitigations (like masks or social distancing) are in play. It is more infectious than the flu, less infections than the measles. It's mode of transmission is still not completely clear, but we know the virus can survive in very small droplets much longer than required to move from person to person in these sorts of environments - especially when masks or social distancing are not in play.

Trying to understand why you think the above doesn't imply we need to put transmission mitigations in place is an exercise in futility, but you are wrong about it nevertheless.

How is this news story meaningful? There is not enough information to know anything. We don't have the name of the church group(s). Like I said, if this is the extent of the cases found, then all the other church gatherings have been perfectly safe with all sorts of people meeting together. There simply is no information to reject what I have just pointed out.

This is a fluff piece. There is no information about who got sick and went to the hospital. it doesn't talk about the age of people that died. If you dislike actual facts, this is a great story.

[mikewhitney]

See Post #4263

Oh wow. You mean 200,000 people died from gatherings at this one church. That is amazing. Thanks for your contribution here.

[casaba]

Welcome to tweb.

Things that seem obvious are not always so. I have only heard it mentioned about flu and influenza deaths being reduced to near nothing since about the time of the start of the covid-19 thing. If this was accurate, then you should try adjusting the chart by reduction of the covid-19 deaths by "normal" flu and influenza numbers while increasing the non-covid-19 deaths by the amount just subtracted from covid-19. One important thing here is that the flu symptoms have mostly been treated as covid-19 cases in the hospitals. And many people report inaccurate death certificates of their relatives -- who were marked as covid-19 deaths but had died from other causes.

Hello and thanks for the welcome. I am actually a returnee after about 10 year absence. Honestly I am a bit shocked at how venomous the 'discussion' is. I appreciate your tone.

But as for the data here, I do no follow what you are saying. The "expected" values include seasonal flu. Yes, some years are worse than others, so the numbers do not always fall close to the expected. The upper bound dotted line represents 95% threshold, i.e., most years we would only expect values for 2 or 3 weeks to fall outside this region.

For me, the way to look at this plot is to ignore the cause of death. Just look at the total over time compared to expected. It clear that there is something this year which far exceeded the typical flu season.

[shunyadragon]

Oh wow. You mean 200,000 people died from gatherings at this one church. That is amazing. Thanks for your contribution here.

Missed the point, actually it is nice of you to acknowledge that there are well over 200,000 fatalities due to COVID-19, and your unethical misrepresentation of CDC source.

The point of my reference
is that churches are indeed a main 'super spreading' vector for the transmission of COVID-19 in the history of the pandemic. Republican political gatherings are also documented as 'super spreaders.

[oxmixmudd]

How is this news story meaningful? There is not enough information to know anything. We don't have the name of the church group(s). Like I said, if this is the extent of the cases found, then all the other church gatherings have been perfectly safe with all sorts of people meeting together. There simply is no information to reject what I have just pointed out.

No large gatherings unmasked and not social distances are 'perfectly safe'. That is the voice of foolishness and ignorance. However, sometimes people get lucky and no-one showing up is actually contagious at the time.

This is a fluff piece. There is no information about who got sick and went to the hospital. it doesn't talk about the age of people that died. If you dislike actual facts, this is a great story.

There is information about who tested positive and who died, which tells us the mortality rate is still quite high. It also makes the point that the foolishness of eschewing sound medical advice based on ignorance and misinformation still kills people even if they are gathering for religious reasons.

[mikewhitney]

No large gatherings unmasked and not social distances are 'perfectly safe'. That is the voice of foolishness and ignorance. However, sometimes people get lucky and no-one showing up is actually contagious at the time.



There is information about who tested positive and who died, which tells us the mortality rate is still quite high. It also makes the point that the foolishness of eschewing sound medical advice based on ignorance and misinformation still kills people even if they are gathering for religious reasons.

We are living in the time of deception and misinformation. It is most prominent in the government and media propaganda. It is not good that Pharaoh has a new excuse for not letting the people go to worship. He appreciates your help though.

I am paying attention to medical advice and science. I have found the advice of 1000s of doctors plus other studies which show the devastating effects of staying on Fauci's death march. I've seen that there are cures for those suffering covid-19 symptoms. one of these is high doses of vitamin D. The other is our cherished HCQ with Zinc. There is nothing to fear but fear itself.

[oxmixmudd]

We are living in the time of deception and misinformation. It is most prominent in the government and media propaganda. It is not good that Pharaoh has a new excuse for not letting the people go to worship. He appreciates your help though.

I am paying attention to medical advice and science. I have found the advice of 1000s of doctors plus other studies which show the devastating effects of staying on Fauci's death march. I've seen that there are cures for those suffering covid-19 symptoms. one of these is high doses of vitamin D. The other is our cherished HCQ with Zinc. There is nothing to fear but fear itself.

I should note that even if your "1000's" is correct, 1000's wrt millions is still 0.1% or less. What you are believing Mike is that millions of doctors and nurses are in fact in league with some vast conspiracy to kill people by withholding simple treatments so that the public can't discover this really isn't a problem.

It's inane foolishness on your part, but I don't expect you to realize that until and unless you can see first hand that the medical community is not lying to you about this disease. It is odd that you'd rather believe the majority of the Doctors in the world are ignorant boobs or evil men than to accept what the actual science is wrt this virus. But you are not alone. Though I doubt the millions now pushing up daisies would have on their deathbeds found your position very comforting as they struggled to get their last few breaths.

[mikewhitney]

I should note that even if your "1000's" is correct, 1000's wrt millions is still 0.1% or less. What you are believing Mike is that millions of doctors and nurses are in fact in league with some vast conspiracy to kill people by withholding simple treatments so that the public can't discover this really isn't a problem.

It's inane foolishness on your part, but I don't expect you to realize that until and unless you can see first hand that the medical community is not lying to you about this disease. It is odd that you'd rather believe the majority of the Doctors in the world are ignorant boobs or evil men than to accept what the actual science is wrt this virus. But you are not alone. Though I doubt the millions now pushing up daisies would have on their deathbeds found your position very comforting as they struggled to get their last few breaths.

I wish you could understand things a bit easier. Most doctors rely on publications and policies that surround them. Doctors have to spend too much time on paperwork and other management activities, so they are not proactive in researching the details of the virus. The situation is like all of us where we just accept what the surrounding cultural information. Plus, it is easiest to just follow the common assumptions and practices in the doctors offices and hospitals.