Coronavirus Outbreak...

[lilpixieofterror]

The "no" part is right. But the "because" part is way, way off. You don't succeed, Pix, because you (ironically) wave away anything you can't answer with "gaslighting" or "TDS" or "handwaving" or simply resort to personal attacks and name calling. Your ability to actually engage in a reasoned argument with points related to the actual discussion is, AFAICT, highly limited. I don't think you're stupid by any means - but I truly do not understand your need to descend to the lowest point in any conversation. If you could stay on topic and actually respond to the points made rather than waste all of your time on personal attacks and mind reading, you might actually have a shot of convincing. Until then...



I rest my case. When you attempt to read my mind, Pix, and you get it wrong. I'm going to tell you. If you don't want that to happen - just stop trying to read my mind, ask me what I think, and accept what I say as true. I don't usually lie to people about what I am thinking or why I am thinking it. Or you can just keep trying to read my mind and then responding with "gaslighting" when I point it out. Whatever you think is productive...



Wow - if THATmost evil person alive" (false - I never said that or implied it)
"you really do see Trump in the worse possible light" (false - I see/assess Trump by the same light I see and assess anyone else, and by the same metrics).
"the assumption that he is pure evil and must be stopped" (false - no one is "pure evil")

These are all superlatives, Pix. "Pure evil" means "100% evil."

As for the rest, I'll leave it to you. Most of what you've said about me is simply flat out wrong, but you seem to be mostly focused on the caricature you've created in your mind, and nothing appears to free you from it. Given that reality, I think I'll bow out. It makes no sense to continue to converse with someone who has already decided who/what I am and how I think/feel. You should have that conversation with the caricature.

If/when you actually respond to me, I'll be happy to respond back. But continually discussing with someone who isn't actually listening is, as you say, pointless. Until you begin to listen... be well.

[lilpixieofterror]

True. That's caused me to quit TWeb a couple of times in the past to get away from it.

[Starlight]

Our new cases per day have floated between 24,337 and 34,592 since March 31st. They are essentially flat at that level, and now we are seeing spikes in predominantly rural states. But "mission accomplished" and "damn the torpedoes - full speed ahead."

Yeah I'm sorry to see things don't seem to be improving for the US. I'd say insufficiently tight lock-down restrictions would be the cause. At the moment it looks to me like things in the US will get much worse, for months, before it begins to get better, unless something drastic changes. A final figure of 1m dead in the US is beginning to look plausible if it carries on at the current death rate or worse for months.

Actually - not exactly "full speed," but definitely, IMO, premature speed. Part of me is so tired of the silly argument, I'm almost inclined to say, "let them re-mingle." Anyone who contracts this virus out of pure stupidity deserves whatever happens to them. Cleaning the gene pool, as they say. The problem is, it won't be just them - a lot of other people trying to maintain social distancing to stay healthy will get caught in their wake.

The number of people in the US apparently willing to kill their granny for the sake of the economy, boggles my mind. As you say, unfortunately this is not a case where stupidity carries it's own punishment, it's a case where stupidity carries a punishment for others in your community.

[oxmixmudd]

Yeah I'm sorry to see things don't seem to be improving for the US. I'd say insufficiently tight lock-down restrictions would be the cause. At the moment it looks to me like things in the US will get much worse, for months, before it begins to get better, unless something drastic changes. A final figure of 1m dead in the US is beginning to look plausible if it carries on at the current death rate or worse for months.

The number of people in the US apparently willing to kill their granny for the sake of the economy, boggles my mind. As you say, unfortunately this is not a case where stupidity carries it's own punishment, it's a case where stupidity carries a punishment for others in your community.

It may effect a lot more than just the us if we are unable to process the normal yield of crops this summer. They dont call the midwest an california the Bread basket of the world for nothing.

Although china is beginning to challenge that. But not likely in time to keep a major agricultural failure in the US from impacting large portions of the world.

[carpedm9587]

why else would you lash out as bad as you are?

Pix - most of this has already been responded to, so I won't waste time repeating. But I thought I would at least address the emphasized part. You seem to be under the impression that I am "lashing out," a term usually associated with anger and retribution.

I realize the odds of you believing this are close to zero - but I'm an optimist. So what the heck. I actually am not angry - nor seeking retribution. If I were to describe my mood it would probably be "resigned disappointment." With MM it is usually "wry amusement." My post was intended to (hopefully) convey to you the pointlessness of making up an entire caricature in your mind, and then arguing with it as if it were a real person.

The real person is right here, on this side of the keyboard. And he is nothing like the figment you have created and continually post to. You have missed the mark so widely, it is hard for me to know where to begin.

Like I said - almost zero chance of you believing it - but I had to at least give it a go.

Be well.

[carpedm9587]

Yeah I'm sorry to see things don't seem to be improving for the US. I'd say insufficiently tight lock-down restrictions would be the cause. At the moment it looks to me like things in the US will get much worse, for months, before it begins to get better, unless something drastic changes. A final figure of 1m dead in the US is beginning to look plausible if it carries on at the current death rate or worse for months.

The number of people in the US apparently willing to kill their granny for the sake of the economy, boggles my mind. As you say, unfortunately this is not a case where stupidity carries it's own punishment, it's a case where stupidity carries a punishment for others in your community.

It boggles my mind too. I am probably not much longer for this country. Certainly not if Trump actually is re-elected. I'm continuing to hold out hope that my fellow citizens will come to their senses. If they don't, New Zealand is certainly on the list.

By the way, I had no idea you lived on a plant!

I'm certain you are the smartest, most knowledgeable person on it, however!


(Sorry, Pix - but the typo was just too good to pass up....)

[Starlight]

It boggles my mind too. I am probably not much longer for this country. Certainly not if Trump actually is re-elected. I'm continuing to hold out hope that my fellow citizens will come to their senses. If they don't, New Zealand is certainly on the list.

It seems likely that the countries that eliminate the virus will keep their borders closed to countries that still have it. So might be 18 months or so til after the vaccine, that travel from the US to NZ becomes possible.

[carpedm9587]

It seems likely that the countries that eliminate the virus will keep their borders closed to countries that still have it. So might be 18 months or so til after the vaccine, that travel from the US to NZ becomes possible.

Frankly, SL, I suspect this is how the "economy first" crowd is going to end up shooting themselves in the foot. The rush to "reopen the economy" is quite likely going to result in a resurgence in cases, especially since we have not yet even seen a significant downturn nationally and we have several hot spots just now beginning to flare. And with Trump pounding the "liberate" drum, there's a good chance all of this will gain momentum and the gains against the virus will be reversed.

So, a few months from now, I predict that countries that have largely defeated the virus will be turning on their economic engines, restarting tourism, and getting the global economy going. The U.S., meanwhile, will have dug itself further into the pariah hole that Trump has already put us in, and will be isolated from that activity due to resurgence of the virus. We'll probably be able to buy from outside the country, but will only be able to sell in a limited fashion. That should do a number on Trump's nemesis: the trade deficit! (imagine ominous music playing as those words are read).

Meanwhile, today's new U.S. cases are still in the high 20K's, so no significant change. NYC is seeing a drop in hospitalizations, which is good news. And they are still holding at 1/3 of the cases nationwide - but they are also leading the pack in testing along with RI and LA. France, Italy, and Spain are the only major European countries with a higher case-per-million-pop count, and we are poised to overtake France in the next couple days. We are 18th on the Worldometer for this statistic, and we are now 13th for deaths per million pop. We used to be in the 40s for each and have been slowly migrating our way higher on a list we do NOT want to top. We are 41st on the list of test per million pop and have not moved from that place for a while. But those above us are moving further ahead more quickly.

I wish we had competent leadership on this. We have in a few states. But 65% of people now think Trump was too slow getting going, and his favorability is dropping. Maybe the "always trumpers" will finally begin to wake up a bit to what they have saddled this country with.

[Starlight]

I agree that's the most likely scenario.

[carpedm9587]

Here we go. The question of what might happen on 11/3 and 1/21 had to come up sooner or later...

[Mountain Man]

Here we go. The question of what might happen on 11/3 and 1/21 had to come up sooner or later...

if could maybe possibly might perhaps

[Mountain Man]

In my neck of the woods [leadership] involves "doing what needs to be done to get the job done."

And in this case, that didn't require the President to personally speak with malcontents. "I'll have my people call your people." Done.

In a crisis situation - anything that breaks down communication and creates obstacles to solutions puts lives at risk.

It would be neat if you had any evidence that this actually happened.

[EvoUK]

Here we go. The question of what might happen on 11/3 and 1/21 had to come up sooner or later...

From what I gather, not least from the link in your post is that actually postponing election day has all sorts of issues, in that by 21/1 time is up, so to speak.

One issue is very likely to be how voting will take place if the virus is still a present threat, and how lawmakers can potentially make it harder for people to vote for partisan advantage. I could point out that Republicans obviously have form here, a recent example (which thankfully backfired) was the GOP trying to force a low-turnout spring election in Wisconsin.

[Cow Poke]

Here we go. The question of what might happen on 11/3 and 1/21 had to come up sooner or later...

People manage to get to Walmart to not buy toilet paper - the election sites will be able to adjust.

[carpedm9587]

And in this case, that didn't require the President to personally speak with malcontents. "I'll have my people call your people." Done.

It would be neat if you had any evidence that this actually happened.

The point was not that it "actually happened." As with so many other things from Trump - it is that he publicly advocated a point of view that reflects his "me first" mindset in the midst of a pandemic. And his "Mr. Pence is different, so he'd probably call" is not the same as "I'll have my people call your people," no matter how many time you try to portray it in that light.

A leader who is petty and vindictive inserts discord and delay - period. It is inevitable. Trump's focus on who is insulting him, his ratings, his claims of "absolute power," his need to get even with every person criticizing undermines and disrupts. He is the opposite of what "good leadership" is about in almost every way. And when he explicitly makes decisions that create delay (i.e., not invoking the Defense Production Act, not assisting in nationalizing purchases of needed PPE and other supplies (so states would not be in a bidding war with one another and having to sneak off to China to get supplies), and not using his bully pulpit to encourage isolation (and instead encouraging demonstrations and protests) is putting lives at risk.

We are at almost three months after our first infection and two months after our first community transmission, and there is little sign of any significant drop off in new cases, testing is still spotty (which means we are largely flying blind) and Mr. Trump is backing a movement to reopen the nation.

When the second wave inevitably hits - I'm sure he will find yet someone else to blame for it. That is, after all, his standard operating procedure.

I'm going to jump off this train. I've said my piece and the merry-go-round is pointless. After unsuccessfully mixing two metaphors, last word to you.