Trump Isn�t Impeached Until the House Tells the Senate

[Cow Poke]

If I were seeking the approval of folks on here, my ideas and standards would be similarly malleable.

So, what was that little aside all about?

You said something false about how impeachment proceedings had moved the needle "the wrong way"

Not according to the Real Clear Politics Average during that time, Sam. I showed you the graph, and you complained it needed to be an AVERAGE, which is exactly what I posted.

poll impeach.jpg

and said something false about Independents.

You really need to get over this notion that just because you found a source you like, somebody else is wrong, Sam.

Independents souring on impeachment underscores risk for Democrats

I'm interested in getting people to learn and say true things and avoid false or foolish things. I consider it a key foundation to the Christian faith.

Awwwww, here ya go again.

Others operate differently but that's their road.

--Sam

Amusing.

[Sam]

So, what was that little aside all about?



Not according to the Real Clear Politics Average during that time, Sam. I showed you the graph, and you complained it needed to be an AVERAGE, which is exactly what I posted.

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You really need to get over this notion that just because you found a source you like, somebody else is wrong, Sam.

Independents souring on impeachment underscores risk for Democrats



Awwwww, here ya go again.



Amusing.

Polling really falls off before October, which is why both RCP and 538 start at October 1 but even if we go with your graph, we still see a net 12-point movement toward impeachment and removal from at least one poll in August.

And your linked article is from November 24, when the net movement of Independent support for impeachment was ... -0.5, a change from 41.7% on Oct. 1 to 41.2% on Nov. 24. Today, it stands at 44.4%, a net change of +2.7%.

It's not a problem with preferring a source. It's a numeracy thing. If you're gonna say things about polls, the numbers have to be there.

--Sam

[Cow Poke]

Polling really falls off before October, which is why both RCP and 538 start at October 1 but even if we go with your graph, we still see a net 12-point movement toward impeachment and removal from at least one poll in August.

And your linked article is from November 24, when the net movement of Independent support for impeachment was ... -0.5, a change from 41.7% on Oct. 1 to 41.2% on Nov. 24. Today, it stands at 44.4%, a net change of +2.7%.

It's not a problem with preferring a source. It's a numeracy thing. If you're gonna say things about polls, the numbers have to be there.

--Sam

Actually, what you're showing is that you will choose the polls that have the numbers you want to believe. (I'm having flashbacks of graphs and charts )

It's all academic, Sam --- I think the Democrats were absolutely convinced that the poll numbers would SOAR, not just move by the eensie teensie amounts we're discussing.

The failure of the American people to be OVERWHELMINGLY persuaded to support the Democrats in their impeachment sham caused them to come to a screeching halt when they came up with their Articles of Impeachment, such that they were ashamed to present them to the Senate.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know..... Nancy wants to dictate the rules of the Senate before she transmits the Articles, but that's not how it works.

The House, as you know has full control of the impeachment, and the Senate has full control of the conviction/removal.

It ain't happenin.

[Sam]

Actually, what you're showing is that you will choose the polls that have the numbers you want to believe. (I'm having flashbacks of graphs and charts )

It's all academic, Sam --- I think the Democrats were absolutely convinced that the poll numbers would SOAR, not just move by the eensie teensie amounts we're discussing.

The failure of the American people to be OVERWHELMINGLY persuaded to support the Democrats in their impeachment sham caused them to come to a screeching halt when they came up with their Articles of Impeachment, such that they were ashamed to present them to the Senate.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know..... Nancy wants to dictate the rules of the Senate before she transmits the Articles, but that's not how it works.

The House, as you know has full control of the impeachment, and the Senate has full control of the conviction/removal.

It ain't happenin.

Easy way for you show that, rather than just say it, is to provide some polling that shows more than 48.1% of Americans supported impeachment and removal prior to September 24, when Pelosi announced the impeachment inquiry.

Otherwise, I'm showing the data and you're just talkin'.

--Sam

[Cow Poke]

Easy way for you show that, rather than just say it, is to provide some polling that shows more than 48.1% of Americans supported impeachment and removal prior to September 24, when Pelosi announced the impeachment inquiry.

Otherwise, I'm showing the data and you're just talkin'.

--Sam

Sure, Sam, you are the master of the charts and graphs, and I'll allow you that title.

But you keep avoiding the FACT that there's about a snowball's chance on a hot Texas blacktop road in August that this impeachment is going anywhere with regards to removing Trump. So you can take your charts and graphs and shove them ...um.... start a whole 'nuther thread with charts and graphs!

ONLY if there's some MAJOR event that happens, or some new information that is revealed --- that happens to move the needle to OVERWHELMING support for impeachment and removal to the extent that the Senate cannot withstand it....

Otherwise, you're just talkin'.

[Sam]

Sure, Sam, you are the master of the charts and graphs, and I'll allow you that title.

But you keep avoiding the FACT that there's about a snowball's chance on a hot Texas blacktop road in August that this impeachment is going anywhere with regards to removing Trump. So you can take your charts and graphs and shove them ...um.... start a whole 'nuther thread with charts and graphs!

ONLY if there's some MAJOR event that happens, or some new information that is revealed --- that happens to move the needle to OVERWHELMING support for impeachment and removal to the extent that the Senate cannot withstand it....

Otherwise, you're just talkin'.

That's the shifting focus thing we talked about. The claim was that Democrats, in pursuing impeachment, had actually moved public opinion against impeachment and/or removal of Trump from office and that Independents, specifically, were moving against impeachment.

The data shows otherwise. Whether or not enough Republicans will join Democrats to convict Trump is fairly unrelated to that issue. Impeachment has moved public opinion, at least in regards to the issue of impeachment, further against Trump. That makes a Senate trial that denies basic provisions of a trial -- like witnesses -- a danger for Republicans, not Democrats, as you are fond of suggesting.

But it's no use talking about any of that if folks can't objectively read the basic set of underlying facts.

--Sam

[Cow Poke]

That's the shifting focus thing we talked about....

Talk on, Sam. I'm done.

Do a little victory dance, proclaim yourself King, post some more charts and graphs ---- this impeachment is going nowhere, regardless of how hard you swing your club at that poor dead equine.

[Sam]

Talk on, Sam. I'm done.

Do a little victory dance, proclaim yourself King, post some more charts and graphs ---- this impeachment is going nowhere, regardless of how hard you swing your club at that poor dead equine.

It would be better, both in this microcosm and in the larger setting, to simply acknowledge when you say something that's wrong and allow your thinking to adjust. If it was important enough to point out when you thought it was true, it shouldn't become irrelevant as soon as it's shown to be false.

From there, you can pursue the facts and the truths of a matter, holding yourself accountable to them. There's a good bit of dignity and honor in that pursuit -- something that's becoming far too rare.

--Sam

[Cow Poke]

It would be better, both in this microcosm and in the larger setting, to simply acknowledge when you say something that's wrong and allow your thinking to adjust. If it was important enough to point out when you thought it was true, it shouldn't become irrelevant as soon as it's shown to be false.

No, Sam --- you take polls that support what you want to believe, and they become "truth", and that's all that matters. The polls are all over the place.

From there, you can pursue the facts and the truths of a matter, holding yourself accountable to them. There's a good bit of dignity and honor in that pursuit -- something that's becoming far too rare.

--Sam

Oh, my, isn't somebody SO full of himself?

[Sam]

No, Sam --- you take polls that support what you want to believe, and they become "truth", and that's all that matters. The polls are all over the place.



Oh, my, isn't somebody SO full of himself?

What you said before was that the polls were showing Democrats' impeachment efforts were backfiring among the general population and Independents. Shown that's not true, you now say that the polls are "all over the place".

Not hard to see which one of us is cherry-picking data, there.

And, no, I don't consider meeting a basic standard of knowledge and development a personal triumph. I do consider those who fail to meet such a standard because they prefer to retain their biases to be seriously deficient, though, and in a way that reflects poorly on a faith dependent on the notion of truth.

--Sam

[Cow Poke]

What you said before was that the polls were showing Democrats' impeachment efforts were backfiring among the general population and Independents. Shown that's not true, you now say that the polls are "all over the place".

Not hard to see which one of us is cherry-picking data, there.

And, no, I don't consider meeting a basic standard of knowledge and development a personal triumph. I do consider those who fail to meet such a standard because they prefer to retain their biases to be seriously deficient, though, and in a way that reflects poorly on a faith dependent on the notion of truth.

--Sam

Have a wonderful evening, Sam.

[rogue06]

What you said before was that the polls were showing Democrats' impeachment efforts were backfiring among the general population and Independents. Shown that's not true, you now say that the polls are "all over the place".

Not hard to see which one of us is cherry-picking data, there.

And, no, I don't consider meeting a basic standard of knowledge and development a personal triumph. I do consider those who fail to meet such a standard because they prefer to retain their biases to be seriously deficient, though, and in a way that reflects poorly on a faith dependent on the notion of truth.

--Sam

The Real Clear Politics aggregate of polls has been showing that the impeachment efforts have been backfiring among the general population and Independents whereas individual polls have been all over the place.

[Cow Poke]

The Real Clear Politics aggregate of polls has been showing that the impeachment efforts have been backfiring among the general population and Independents whereas individual polls have been all over the place.

Sam can always find other polls which are truererer.

[Watermelon]

Sam can always find other polls which are truererer.

Reports over the last few days on Politico and others are indicating that support for impeachment and removal has dramatically increased post Christmas. A few have claimed support has reached an all time high.

Who knows which ones are truererer.

[Cow Poke]

Reports over the last few days on Politico and others are indicating that support for impeachment and removal has dramatically increased post Christmas.

"Dramatically"? I've seen some upticks, but nothing dramatic. And it's still incredibly partisan.

impeachment.jpg

A few have claimed support has reached an all time high.

Who knows which ones are truererer.

And we come back to the fact that, unless and until there is OVERWHELMING and BIPARTISAN support, conviction and removal just ain't happenin'.