Christianity Today Op Ed

[Sam]

I'd love to know what Sammich would do if he found out someone in his church worked for the Family Research Council.

If my church planned to attend a rally organized by Westboro Baptist types so it could showcase its commitment to faithful, monogamous marriage, I'd warn them all of exactly what they're getting into with those types. And if my church went ahead with it and stood alongside people chanting "God Hates Homos", I'd find a new church and try to understand just how badly I misread the underlying intentions and tolerances of my former church.

--Sam

[Bill the Cat]

If my church planned to attend a rally organized by Westboro Baptist types so it could showcase its commitment to faithful, monogamous marriage, I'd warn them all of exactly what they're getting into with those types. And if my church went ahead with it and stood alongside people chanting "God Hates Homos", I'd find a new church and try to understand just how badly I misread the underlying intentions and tolerances of my former church.

--Sam

Did I ask you about Westboro?

[Sam]

Did I ask you about Westboro?

Westboro is the more analogous example, given the loud "Jews will not replace us" crowd.

[Bill the Cat]

Westboro is the more analogous example, given the loud "Jews will not replace us" crowd.

The FRC has been designated as a hate group by the SPLC, have they not?

[Mountain Man]

If my church planned to attend a rally organized by Westboro Baptist types so it could showcase its commitment to faithful, monogamous marriage, I'd warn them all of exactly what they're getting into with those types. And if my church went ahead with it and stood alongside people chanting "God Hates Homos", I'd find a new church and try to understand just how badly I misread the underlying intentions and tolerances of my former church.

--Sam

Better example:

Suppose members of your church had permits to peacefully protest, and then uninvited members of Westboro showed up and started causing trouble. Should the members of your church retreat, or stand their ground? If they stand their ground, is it fair to then lump them in with the Westboro hooligans and condemn everybody?

[Sam]

Better example:

Suppose members of your church had permits to peacefully protest, and then uninvited members of Westboro showed up and started causing trouble. Should the members of your church retreat, or stand their ground? If they stand their ground, is it fair to then lump them in with the Westboro hooligans and condemn everybody?

The event was organized by white nationalist groups and promoted with white nationalist and neo-Nazi iconography.

So, no, your example is not better, even without getting into any evidence that the Virginia Flaggers "stood their ground" against the antisemitic mob.

--Sam

[Sparko]

The event was organized by white nationalist groups and promoted with white nationalist and neo-Nazi iconography.

I thought it was a peaceful legal demonstration that was hijacked by the Nazis and then the Antifa.

[Bill the Cat]

The event was organized by white nationalist groups and promoted with white nationalist and neo-Nazi iconography.

So, no, your example is not better, even without getting into any evidence that the Virginia Flaggers "stood their ground" against the antisemitic mob.

--Sam

Actually, the flaggers petitioned Charlottesville for a permit to assemble in the park 2 days before the Unite the Right rally did.

[One Bad Pig]

There's a saying from a good movie:

The Rabbi: My father used to say: "The first time someone calls you a horse you punch him on the nose, the second time someone calls you a horse you call him a jerk but the third time someone calls you a horse, well then perhaps it's time to go shopping for a saddle.

Dude, it's still a comment section - perhaps why you stooped to attempting to defend it with a movie quote.

And, with relatively little research, stuff like this just keeps appearing:

Source:

Update: Virginia Flaggers were led down the streets of Lexington by a member of the League of the South.

© Copyright Original Source

You have to go to archive.org to get the page but the man is Gregory Randall, who publicly said he was a member of League of the South in 2015.

Oh noes! Guilt by association!1!1!1!1!!!!!1

I used to respect you, Sam, because although you were on the opposite side of the argument, your thoughtful input made me carefully think things through. Since you've returned, I'm afraid that's no longer the case.

[simplicio]

The event was organized by white nationalist groups and promoted with white nationalist and neo-Nazi iconography.

So, no, your example is not better, even without getting into any evidence that the Virginia Flaggers "stood their ground" against the antisemitic mob.

--Sam

Really, is there any evidence that they "stood their ground" to signal opposition to the racist mob? I don't remember any such reports from 2017.

Yes, the rally was promoted as a venue for such groups as the neoconfederates, neonazis, and klan groups, a striking change from earlier rallies when the sponsoring groups was not proudly advertised. The earlier rallies were successful in that they did not generate negative publicity. The alt right thought their time had come to enter the mainstream.

It was in the open and common knowledge that the alt right racists were pressing their views. Which is why there was such a large turnout of Antifa types.

[Mountain Man]

Actually, the flaggers petitioned Charlottesville for a permit to assemble in the park 2 days before the Unite the Right rally did.

There you go again, letting the facts get in the way of the liberal narrative.

[Sam]

I thought it was a peaceful legal demonstration that was hijacked by the Nazis and then the Antifa.

It's not really obscure history. The event was organized by white nationalists who had been agitating all year with white supremacist and neo-Nazi references. Promotional material explicitly included iconography associated with those movements.

Image 001.jpg

[Sam]

I used to respect you, Sam, because although you were on the opposite side of the argument, your thoughtful input made me carefully think things through. Since you've returned, I'm afraid that's no longer the case.

A good while before I left, most folks on the opposite side of the argument had stopped being thoughtful or even consistent in their processes, leading to obvious absurdities and hypocrisies. It's gotten worse since then.

A lesson I took from an old, beloved professor: "There comes a point where you stop arguing and start preaching."

Here, we have a question of why Trump, a man not known for his nuance or deep knowledge of American culture and history, watched the events of Charlottesville unfold and decided to spend the bulk of his press conference both-siding a rally organized and attended by explicit white nationalists and neo-Nazis. We've seen that even a group purportedly there without any business with white nationalists nevertheless has tie-ins that should be downright shocking to its supporters. Instead, they're just deflecting from any serious consideration of it.

Not much here to be too thoughtful about anymore. Y'all have changed in many disturbing ways.

--Sam

[simplicio]

Actually, the flaggers petitioned Charlottesville for a permit to assemble in the park 2 days before the Unite the Right rally did.

The permits were requested for the same timeframe by coincidence?

Since there was talk of holding another rally at Charlottesville, and there was cross membership, the groups did coordinate, organize to have a successful rally. As the several rallies from earlier that summer. They wanted to place their best foot forward, and continue gaining support.

[Sparko]

Well if everyone there when the Nazis were, were also Nazis, then that means the Antifa are also Nazis. Guilt by association.