Trump's National Address

[Cow Poke]

Well, aren't you a virtuous little grup. (Star Trek reference, if you're wondering)

That episode was a hoot!

[carpedm9587]

Well, aren't you a virtuous little grup. (Star Trek reference, if you're wondering)

Your 'holier than thou' virtue signaling got old a decade or so ago, carpe. Not that you care.

Holier than thou? I don't even use the word "holy." And anyone who thinks their choice of action is moral and someone else's is immoral (or productive vs. counterproductive) is, by your reasoning, subject to being called "holier than thou." So is the Christian likewise "holier than thou" when they tell the nonchristian that they are likely going to hell? Or tells the homosexual that their sexual orientation and/or sexual activity is immoral "holier than thou?"

We all have things we think are "good/moral" and things we think are not.Expressing them does not make one person "holier" than another. It simply means their willing to say what they think about what is and is not right.

[carpedm9587]

You have continually claimed to be in the center, Carp. slightly to the left actually but very close to the center.

So most of these say what I've been saying, I am left of center (as an average) - and more to the center than to the extreme left. Mediabiasfactcheck would probably describe me as "center-left" or "left-center."

I'm not sure what the two explicit "centrist" contexts are. Some views I hold I consider to be right down the center (i.e., my position on abortion). So without a context, I cannot say.

I have to say, I find it fascinating that so much time/energy is spent on where I sit on the political spectrum. Why do you folks (who are posting about it) seem to care about it so much?

[One Bad Pig]

Holier than thou? I don't even use the word "holy." And anyone who thinks their choice of action is moral and someone else's is immoral (or productive vs. counterproductive) is, by your reasoning, subject to being called "holier than thou." So is the Christian likewise "holier than thou" when they tell the nonchristian that they are likely going to hell? Or tells the homosexual that their sexual orientation and/or sexual activity is immoral "holier than thou?"

We all have things we think are "good/moral" and things we think are not.Expressing them does not make one person "holier" than another. It simply means their willing to say what they think about what is and is not right.

Way to totally miss the point, carpe. Surely you're not unfamiliar with the concept. It's how you come across.

[carpedm9587]

A lot of this hand-wringing about family separation started when liberals gleefully vilified Trump with pictures of children in cages, before hastily deleting their social media posts when it was pointed out that the pictures were actually taken while Obama was in office.

This has been discussed ad nauseum. The original poster deleted the relevant tweet within minutes of posting it, but had 1 million followers and it went viral before that deletion/explanation could stop it. So the "correction" took time to chase the misinformation. That has happened so many times from the right (as well as the left) that it's a little hypocritical to hold the left to a standard the right cannot even maintain. The misinformation comes from both sides, not just one.

Meanwhile, photos of the safe, comfortable, and clean facilities that children were kept in by the Trump administration received almost no media coverage.

Yeah - I've seen it. In true Breitbart style, they visited ONE facility in El Cajon, CA - which has significant capacity and was designed to house children/families. That does not obviate all of the locations not so designed, and all of the locations where the nature of the housing (never mind the fact of separation) was nowhere near this level. Breitbart takes a truth and spins it. Without a bit of digging - it makes Trump look awesome. It was California that was awesome - making the best out of a bad situation - not Trump. Try looking at the Tornillo shelter, and many (most?) of the shelters in Texas and Arizona - not to mention those further afield (i.e., Chicago, Atlanta, etc.). There are over 100 shelters in 17 states. Pictures from ONE doesn't represent the whole.

[carpedm9587]

Way to totally miss the point, carpe. Surely you're not unfamiliar with the concept. It's how you come across.

It is the way some people interpret me, OBP. My comment was pretty simple: I find most of the kinds of memes used here childish - and that is the reason I don't use them. They don't rise to the level of "intelligent political commentary." They are largely just mean spirited and just a hair above "trolling."

If expressing that opinion makes me "holier than thou" - so be it.

Sticks and stones, as they say...

[Bill the Cat]

This has been discussed ad nauseum. The original poster deleted the relevant tweet within minutes of posting it, but had 1 million followers and it went viral before that deletion/explanation could stop it. So the "correction" took time to chase the misinformation. That has happened so many times from the right (as well as the left) that it's a little hypocritical to hold the left to a standard the right cannot even maintain. The misinformation comes from both sides, not just one.



Yeah - I've seen it. In true Breitbart style, they visited ONE facility in El Cajon, CA - which has significant capacity and was designed to house children/families. That does not obviate all of the locations not so designed, and all of the locations where the nature of the housing (never mind the fact of separation) was nowhere near this level. Breitbart takes a truth and spins it. Without a bit of digging - it makes Trump look awesome. It was California that was awesome - making the best out of a bad situation - not Trump. Try looking at the Tornillo shelter, and many (most?) of the shelters in Texas and Arizona - not to mention those further afield (i.e., Chicago, Atlanta, etc.). There are over 100 shelters in 17 states. Pictures from ONE doesn't represent the whole.

https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/ne...ry/2547461002/
No more migrant children were being held at the temporary tent shelter at the Tornillo port of entry as of Friday morning, according to the Department of Health and Human Services.

[carpedm9587]

https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/ne...ry/2547461002/
No more migrant children were being held at the temporary tent shelter at the Tornillo port of entry as of Friday morning, according to the Department of Health and Human Services.

That is nice to know. Unfortunately - the separation policy was implemented in April of 2018 - and only now - eight months later - is this "facility" being closed. And I note that the Breitbart article makes no reference to such facilities (in true Breitbart "spin" style). It's why I simply don't waste my time with them anymore. It simply takes too much effort to sort the spin from the facts. To be fair - Mother Jones and Jezebel have the same problem from the left.

[One Bad Pig]

It is the way some people interpret me, OBP. My comment was pretty simple: I find most of the kinds of memes used here childish - and that is the reason I don't use them. They don't rise to the level of "intelligent political commentary." They are largely just mean spirited and just a hair above "trolling."

Other than the 50 or so you've posted here, you mean.

If expressing that opinion makes me "holier than thou" - so be it.

Sticks and stones, as they say...

Funny how words nonetheless trigger a defensive reaction, even after you've declared you would get out of the business of defending yourself.

[rogue06]

Both Bush and Obama considered the family separation issue. ... At no point did either administration have a policy of separating children from their parents.

Neither had courts telling them that they were no longer allowed to keep families together. Why did you leave that part out? It's almost like you're trying to be deliberately duplicitous.

[Charles]

Both Bush and Obama considered the family separation issue. Both elected not to do it for humanitarian reasons. Both then, in keeping families together, found themselves essentially holding entire families in holding facilities. That is what led to the lawsuits and the subsequent, court-mandated, change in policy. The courts placed an upper limit on how long families with children could be held in detention. IIRC, it was around 3 weeks (20 days?).

At no point did either administration have a policy of separating children from their parents.

And now with the support of quite many Christians we have seen family separation because humitarian reasons don't count too much to some of them.

[Cow Poke]

And now with the support of quite many Christians we have seen family separation because humitarian reasons don't count too much to some of them.

Another excuse to demonstrate your anti-Christian bias.

[Bill the Cat]

And now with the support of quite many Christians we have seen family separation because humitarian reasons don't count too much to some of them.

Is it humane to put children behind bars?

[Sparko]

So most of these say what I've been saying, I am left of center (as an average) - and more to the center than to the extreme left. Mediabiasfactcheck would probably describe me as "center-left" or "left-center."

I'm not sure what the two explicit "centrist" contexts are. Some views I hold I consider to be right down the center (i.e., my position on abortion). So without a context, I cannot say.

I have to say, I find it fascinating that so much time/energy is spent on where I sit on the political spectrum. Why do you folks (who are posting about it) seem to care about it so much?

It's just that you were denying claiming to be centrist to LPOT when you have always claimed to be pretty much centrist all along. In fact it seems to be a point of pride with you that you are in the middle and see both sides and are more fair than the rest of us biased peons. That is why your denying it to LPOT was such a "what the...?" moment to me. I clearly remember us discussing the political compass in that one thread and you claiming how center you were and then I took the test and I came out more center than you did.

It isn't us that is spending so much time about where on the spectrum you sit, it is you yourself who keep bringing up over and over, trying to show how fair and balanced you are.

[rogue06]

It's just that you were denying claiming to be centrist to LPOT when you have always claimed to be pretty much centrist all along. In fact it seems to be a point of pride with you that you are in the middle and see both sides and are more fair than the rest of us biased peons. That is why your denying it to LPOT was such a "what the...?" moment to me. I clearly remember us discussing the political compass in that one thread and you claiming how center you were and then I took the test and I came out more center than you did.

It isn't us that is spending so much time about where on the spectrum you sit, it is you yourself who keep bringing up over and over, trying to show how fair and balanced you are.

Recently he said he was pretty liberal on social issues but relatively conservative on fiscal issues -- right before he started repeating Marxist mantras about "economic justice."