Originally posted by alaskazimm
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Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
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How would pro-gun people here defend this?
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"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostHow would you ticket him? If the different cities cannot regulate access to parks, et al, then there is no basis for a ticket. If cities are required to post restrictions and limited to the types of restrictions they can enact, that serves the same purpose and the jerk can get a ticket should he try this again.
The ticketing would come from breach of peace or causing public disturbance which I understand most cities have laws in place and are pretty broad to allow officer discretion.We know J6 wasn’t peaceful because they didn’t set the building on fire.
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Okay, I think I see where the confusion is occurring. If the law prohibits any lower governments from enacting their own regulations then the city cannot enact an ordinance restricting access. No ordinance, no sign saying 'no guns' - ordinances are a city's regulatory power. A city cannot issue restrictions without the force of law (well, it could but they wouldn't mean anything and the guy still wouldn't get a ticket) - in order to regulate behavior it must issue an ordinance.
Yes, that means there's actually an ordinance on the books when you see city parks with 'keep off the grass' signs.
Saying 'nyahh nyahh, you can't stop me' is childish, but not disturbing the peace no matter how broadly you stretch it.
A law that prevents cities from restricting gun owners from carrying at all while allowing cities to regulate access serves the same purpose - when you see the little sign, the gun stays in the car. Simple.Last edited by Teallaura; 04-29-2014, 04:45 PM."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYeah
And I remember reading that there was a city (in Michigan?) that passed a city ordinance that ALL homes must have firearms for protection.... I CERTAINLY don't want the LIBERALS to have guns!
The law was essentially a symbolic effort exempting anyone who didn't want to own a firearm for practically any reason
Exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer a physical or mental disability which would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine, or persons convicted of a felony.
Nobody has ever been prosecuted for violating it.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostOkay, I think I see where the confusion is occurring. If the law prohibits any lower governments from enacting their own regulations then the city cannot enact an ordinance restricting access. No ordinance, no sign saying 'no guns' - ordinances are a city's regulatory power. A city cannot issue restrictions without the force of law (well, it could but they wouldn't mean anything and the guy still wouldn't get a ticket) - in order to regulate behavior it must issue an ordinance.
Yes, that means there's actually an ordinance on the books when you see city parks with 'keep off the grass' signs.
Saying 'nyahh nyahh, you can't stop me' is childish, but not disturbing the peace no matter how broadly you stretch it.
A law that prevents cities from restricting gun owners from carrying at all while allowing cities to regulate access serves the same purpose - when you see the little sign, the gun stays in the car. Simple.We know J6 wasn’t peaceful because they didn’t set the building on fire.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostOn the Internet, it pretty much means 'whatever I find reasonable' - which is, as you note, pretty useless. But in law, it does have a defined meaning - albeit not as technically defined as one might expect but that from necessity, not Internet style laziness.
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostCities do have and should have the authority to regulate use and access to public parks. The Second Amendment is not a license to carry any gun anywhere - nor has it EVER been.
And for the record, until the Court held differently a few years back and finally incorporated the silly thing, the states had EVERY right to regulate guns UNDER THE CONSTITUTION. Being in the BoA does NOT automatically mean it applies to the states - the BoA didn't apply to the states AT ALL prior to the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments added after the Civil War.
Constitutional Law: It's what's for breakfast....
Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post. . . or should not, have the authority to override the Constitution. . . or should not, have the authority to override the Constitution. . . . or should not, have the authority to override the Constitution.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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IIRC, various government jurisdictions can expand rights guaranteed in the Constitution.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIIRC, various government jurisdictions can expand rights guaranteed in the Constitution.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIn a courtroom, it is up to both sides to convince the Jury that what a "reasonable man" might or might not do.
No, it's the jury's duty to decide if the act was reasonable using the Reasonable Man - the opposing sides argue whether or not the act was reasonable (presuming they agree it occured)."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by alaskazimm View PostOK I gotcha you now. Many areas are off limits while one is carrying, eg - post office, schools, day cares, etc, though this normally is state wide law rather than a city ordinance. In Alaska, signs prohibiting guns don't carry the force of law, though if the store owner asks you to leave and you don't then you can be charged with trespassing. Any other areas that are prohibited is the gun owners responsibility to know of. And this only works if the laws are the same statewide, rather than each city deciding."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostAs I said:"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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It is interesting that hardly anybody wants to take the First Amendment in as absolute terms as some do with the Second. Technically, one could make a case that things like obscenity laws, noise ordinances, laws against inciting violence and threats, etc. violate the wording of the First Amendment (and I know some libertarians actually do try to consistently argue this), but over the years, the courts have generally concluded that one's rights stop where they start to intrude on the rights of others."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostIt is interesting that hardly anybody wants to take the First Amendment in as absolute terms as some do with the Second. Technically, one could make a case that things like obscenity laws, noise ordinances, laws against inciting violence and threats, etc. violate the wording of the First Amendment (and I know some libertarians actually do try to consistently argue this), but over the years, the courts have generally concluded that one's rights stop where they start to intrude on the rights of others.
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