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How would pro-gun people here defend this?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    That's correct. The Second Amendment says that guns cannot be banned altogether. It does not preclude reasonable restrictions from being passed regulating where they may be used.
    I guess then the next question would be who defines "reasonable"....

    I notice that apparently anytime, at least recently, any form of gun control is pushed, "common-sense" suddenly becomes the advocates' favorite word.
    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      I'm really surprised at how conservatives in the state are so supportive of a law that takes power away from local governments.
      I think what the law was meant to do was prevent a situation where there are many different laws and restrictions in one geographical area. Take for instance the San Diego area. There are many separate cities (probably more than 10) within the San Diego metro area. If each one was able to form their own gun regulations then one could conceivably break the law just by motoring down the freeway. IMO a responsible citizen couldn't keep up with the many permutations that would follow for each city.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
        I guess then the next question would be who defines "reasonable"....

        I notice that apparently anytime, at least recently, any form of gun control is pushed, "common-sense" suddenly becomes the advocates' favorite word.
        Not really - reasonable in this context is a legal term. It refers to what the 'reasonable man' would conclude/do. It's an amalgam of possible reasonable conclusions - not what some lunatic thinks is 'reasonable'. Brandishing a weapon in a public park is not a 'reasonable act' - it's a stupid stunt. The Second Amendment doesn't protect the right to be a moron with a weapon absolutely.

        I find few control opponents actually completely oppose gun control - just what they view as excessive or unreasonable restrictions. Haven't met one yet that thought the certifiably insane should have unrestricted rights to guns. Ditto most felons. I find fewer that oppose all certification/licensure - most have no problem with the idea of showing that you actually do know how to handle a weapon safely. It becomes more contentious as we explore what is and is not reasonable but that's just because humans only come in size messy - we have more common ground than most people realize.
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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        • #34
          Originally posted by alaskazimm View Post
          I think what the law was meant to do was prevent a situation where there are many different laws and restrictions in one geographical area. Take for instance the San Diego area. There are many separate cities (probably more than 10) within the San Diego metro area. If each one was able to form their own gun regulations then one could conceivably break the law just by motoring down the freeway. IMO a responsible citizen couldn't keep up with the many permutations that would follow for each city.
          Yeah

          And I remember reading that there was a city (in Michigan?) that passed a city ordinance that ALL homes must have firearms for protection.... I CERTAINLY don't want the LIBERALS to have guns!
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
            Not really - reasonable in this context is a legal term. It refers to what the 'reasonable man' would conclude/do.
            Yeah, cause LORD KNOWS there ain't no such thing as a reasonable woman!
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by alaskazimm View Post
              I think what the law was meant to do was prevent a situation where there are many different laws and restrictions in one geographical area. Take for instance the San Diego area. There are many separate cities (probably more than 10) within the San Diego metro area. If each one was able to form their own gun regulations then one could conceivably break the law just by motoring down the freeway. IMO a responsible citizen couldn't keep up with the many permutations that would follow for each city.

              I agree that was the likely purpose - but to exclude all regulation is foolish. Gun owners can read the little signs that say 'no guns allowed' as well as anyone else so a provision requiring notification would have served the same purpose better. (Actually, a blend of prohibition and such a provision would be best - I don't like unnecessarily confusing law any better than I like guns).
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Yeah, cause LORD KNOWS there ain't no such thing as a reasonable woman!
                Did you say something?
                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Yeah

                  And I remember reading that there was a city (in Michigan?) that passed a city ordinance that ALL homes must have firearms for protection.... I CERTAINLY don't want the LIBERALS to have guns!

                  Just give them handgonnes - they'll never figure out how the thing works and as long as you aren't close enough for them to swing it at you, you're safe.

                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                    Not really - reasonable in this context is a legal term. It refers to what the 'reasonable man' would conclude/do. It's an amalgam of possible reasonable conclusions - not what some lunatic thinks is 'reasonable'. Brandishing a weapon in a public park is not a 'reasonable act' - it's a stupid stunt. The Second Amendment doesn't protect the right to be a moron with a weapon absolutely.

                    I find few control opponents actually completely oppose gun control - just what they view as excessive or unreasonable restrictions. Haven't met one yet that thought the certifiably insane should have unrestricted rights to guns. Ditto most felons. I find fewer that oppose all certification/licensure - most have no problem with the idea of showing that you actually do know how to handle a weapon safely. It becomes more contentious as we explore what is and is not reasonable but that's just because humans only come in size messy - we have more common ground than most people realize.
                    Not a problem for me.

                    I must have gotten the wrong impression from "reasonable." Anytime I've heard the word "common-sense", for example, used in the debate, it's seemed to be used as a bludgeon to discourage dissent, rather than as a legal term to encourage discussion as to what it actually entails.
                    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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                    • #40
                      On the Internet, it pretty much means 'whatever I find reasonable' - which is, as you note, pretty useless. But in law, it does have a defined meaning - albeit not as technically defined as one might expect but that from necessity, not Internet style laziness.

                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        On the Internet, it pretty much means 'whatever I find reasonable' - which is, as you note, pretty useless. But in law, it does have a defined meaning - albeit not as technically defined as one might expect but that from necessity, not Internet style laziness.

                        That sounds about right.

                        I'm sure I've seen you say this before and I just forgot, but you have a background in law, right? I can imagine that being quite useful.
                        I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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                        • #42
                          Poli Sci, actually. My mom was a legal secretary so I grew up reading law reviews. Took some Constitutional Law in college but mostly, I'm a legal geek.
                          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                          My Personal Blog

                          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                          Quill Sword

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                            Poli Sci, actually. My mom was a legal secretary so I grew up reading law reviews.
                            Very cool.

                            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                            Took some Constitutional Law in college but mostly, I'm a legal geek.
                            So is geekhood a legally recognized thing now?
                            I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              I agree that was the likely purpose - but to exclude all regulation is foolish. Gun owners can read the little signs that say 'no guns allowed' as well as anyone else so a provision requiring notification would have served the same purpose better. (Actually, a blend of prohibition and such a provision would be best - I don't like unnecessarily confusing law any better than I like guns).
                              This is true with regards to specific locations within the city. But cities in close proximity to each other with wildly differing laws leads to unnecessary confusion. Which this law prevents.

                              With regards to the OP - yeah, that guy should have been carted off for a stern talking to at a minimum. Probably a ticket as well.

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                              • #45
                                Well, I'm certifiable, anyway.
                                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                                My Personal Blog

                                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                                Quill Sword

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