Botham Shem Jean

[Cow Poke]

There's no equivalence here.

She accepted a hug, and reluctantly at that.

Did you actually watch the video? She threw her arms around his neck, then went back for seconds and thirds and fourths...

That's nothing at all, and less than nothing in comparison to a prisoner going to the personal, extended, and deliberate effort of memorizing the Qur'an.

Since you brought it up ...

It's clearly something that can cause a judge to lose her wits, openly violating the first amendment...

JimL, is that YOU?

[firstfloor]

Remarkable scenes in the courtroom. Some of her attitudes towards the black population, as exposed by the prosecution, were very unfavourable.
- The Guardian

What we see here, in the courtroom, is a generosity of spirit that is not reciprocated. It should be a lesson to us all.

[Teallaura]

Hey, FF2, do you know about cite tags? They are supported but you have to do them manually. They're for citations like the one you just did and it dawned on me you might not realize you can use them here.

[firstfloor]

Hey, FF2, do you know about cite tags? They are supported but you have to do them manually. They're for citations like the one you just did and it dawned on me you might not realize you can use them here.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...er-botham-jean

[Cow Poke]

Remarkable scenes in the courtroom. Some of her attitudes towards the black population, as exposed by the prosecution, were very unfavourable.

- The Guardian

What we see here, in the courtroom, is a generosity of spirit that is not reciprocated. It should be a lesson to us all.

Yes, love and mercy in the name of Christ.

[firstfloor]

Yes, love and mercy in the name of Christ.

[Cow Poke]

He specifically implored her to turn to Christ.

I hope you go to God If you go to GodI think giving your life to Christ

[One Bad Pig]

There's no equivalence here.

She accepted a hug, and reluctantly at that. That's nothing at all, and less than nothing in comparison to a prisoner going to the personal, extended, and deliberate effort of memorizing the Qur'an.

Surely you're aware that's not the equivalence to which I was referring.
Maybe you missed that she's been given a 10-year sentence, and is no longer on the DPD? The judge's religious beliefs don't appear to have affected the sentence she handed down. Amber's religious beliefs, whatever they are, don't appear to have affected the decision either, so I'm not sure what's gotten your panties into a twist.

When the basis for making decisions is markedly improved, decisions tend to show similar improvement. Granted, she may never have perfect hair....

[Cow Poke]

Maybe you missed that she's been given a 10-year sentence, and is no longer on the DPD?

And will never be allowed to serve on any PD anywhere in the US. Further, Texas has a mandatory '50% served' requirement, meaning that Guyger's team cannot even REQUEST parole until 5 years of time served.

The judge's religious beliefs don't appear to have affected the sentence she handed down.

And, note that the sentence she "handed down" was the one the jury imposed. In Texas, before the trial, the accused can request sentencing by a jury OR by the judge. Her team chose jury sentencing.

Further, the reason that the "witness impact statements" are made AFTER the sentence is handed down is so that they - in no way - can impact the trail or the sentence. After sentencing, there is nothing this judge can do to impact the length of stay for the convicted. From here, it is entirely left up to Texas Department of Corrections and the Parole Board.

[Cow Poke]

It's clearly something that can cause a judge to lose her wits, openly violating the first amendment with cameras rolling, on live TV, in the courtroom and still in her robes....

Let's look at this absent rampant emotion....

First, the First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

A) She is not 'Congress'
2) She was "making no law"
C) She was exercising her own "freedom of speech" AFTER the trial was concluded (yes, I believe it would have been better had she come back into the courtroom sans the robe - that would have been much more clear that "personally....")
IV) Even the Witness Impact Statements [of which this was all part] happen after the official close of the trial, so that they can have no impact whatsoever on the ruling or the sentencing.

So, what we have is that she "violated" - NOT "the First Amendment" - but the skewed interpretation of the "separation of church and state" principle which does not even exist in the Constitution.

I'm actually a little surprised that her incredible act of compassion in what had been such a volatile environment would be attacked as "openly violating the first amendment with cameras rolling...."

And it's most interesting to note that this was all set in motion by the extraordinary act of the brother of the murdered victim exercising his own 'freedom of speech' to pour out love and forgiveness and healing on his brother's murderer.

[firstfloor]

He specifically implored her to turn to Christ.

I hope you go to God If you go to GodI think giving your life to Christ

[Cow Poke]

That expression of good wishes might not have gone down as well if Jean and the Judge has been Muslin, and Guyger went off to prison clinging onto a copy of the Quran.

Well, if Mohammad had actually preached love, forgiveness and healing instead of Jihad, you might have a point.

"We"? What motivation - other than the love of Christ - could possibly explain what he did?

Is he kind by nature, or from experience, or by obligation?

He had a good Christian momma who taught him well.

You would prefer, perhaps, the anger, shouting and chaos that was going on in the hall?

[Teallaura]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...er-botham-jean

That's cool, thanks. I wasn't criticizing or worried about the link, though.

[KingsGambit]

I feel really disheartened this morning.

This has gone viral among Christians about a story of forgiveness. But apparently a lot of Black Christians are not thrilled... at all.

In one of the apologetics groups I'm in, one guy I've seen around Christian circles, a black guy... is downright pissed. He won't even say what he thinks other than that "you just don't get it". Another guy with a fairly wide voice, who is married to a black woman, says that white Christians need to be focusing just as much on systematic racism rather than just forgiveness.

An old friend of mine from high school who is now a pastor also just posted on Facebook to other pastors that if they want to use this as an example in church of forgiveness... but they haven't preached against current day racism, or didn't use Martin Luther King Day to do so... that preaching about Amber Guyger is going to do more harm than good. A friend chimed in that she had heard from a lot of black Christians and they are not thrilled about this story being used in this way... at all.

If a lot of black Christians feel this way, I feel that I can't just ignore their feelings, you know? Yet this sort of turning the other cheek is what Christianity is about. But the situation of racism in the US does complicate how to convey that.

[Adrift]

I feel really disheartened this morning.

This has gone viral among Christians about a story of forgiveness. But apparently a lot of Black Christians are not thrilled... at all.

In one of the apologetics groups I'm in, one guy I've seen around Christian circles, a black guy... is downright pissed. He won't even say what he thinks other than that "you just don't get it". Another guy with a fairly wide voice, who is married to a black woman, says that white Christians need to be focusing just as much on systematic racism rather than just forgiveness.

An old friend of mine from high school who is now a pastor also just posted on Facebook to other pastors that if they want to use this as an example in church of forgiveness... but they haven't preached against current day racism, or didn't use Martin Luther King Day to do so... that preaching about Amber Guyger is going to do more harm than good. A friend chimed in that she had heard from a lot of black Christians and they are not thrilled about this story being used in this way... at all.

If a lot of black Christians feel this way, I feel that I can't just ignore their feelings, you know? Yet this sort of turning the other cheek is what Christianity is about. But the situation of racism in the US does complicate how to convey that.

I'd be more concerned with those who want to turn a teaching moment about forgiveness into something bitter and negative.