Conservative values

[Sparko]

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-n...206-story.html

While probably not technically against the rules, we don't like people just posting articles. You need to use a cite to further your own argument, using your own words, backed up by SHORT quotes. So stop.

[NorrinRadd]

Previous several posts -- tl;dr among other problems.

Now, all "the Bible sez" stuff aside, what the hell business is it of any other nation to tell Israel what their capital must be? If they are a sovereign nation, why don't THEY get to declare their own capital?

[Jedidiah]

Their sovereignty is disputed by the evil leaders of the so-called Palestinians. Israel is the true Palestine.

[Starlight]

Now, all "the Bible sez" stuff aside, what the hell business is it of any other nation to tell Israel what their capital must be? If they are a sovereign nation, why don't THEY get to declare their own capital?

Do the Palestinians also get to declare Jerusalem their capital? Can Syria do it? Can ISIS?

Can China simply declare that Taiwan is its new capital?

The situation with Israel is that the international community has been trying for decades to work towards a two-state peace plan for the region, and Israel and the US keep subverting that process, as do occasionally various Palestinian terrorist elements. Israel can, of course, keep stealing Palestinian land and throwing the Palestinian people there off it and bulldozing their homes and building fortified settlements full of Jewish people on that land in defiance of various UN resolutions demanding they stop doing this. Like they can also name Jerusalem their capital if they wish, but the international community obviously has zero obligation to acknowledge such a contentious move on the part of Israel.

I think potentially a better move, given the high number of Jews in the US, would be to designate an area of land in the US as being a new Jewish nation state, and try to encourage Jews to settle there, in a region of the world where their neighbors are much more accepting of them, rather than contentiously trying to aggressively expand the nation of Israel and displace the Palestinians who have lived there for thousands of years.


I'm curious: Is your desire to see Jerusalem become Israel's capital out of a desire to trigger the literal Biblical apocalypse described in the book of Revelation; or out of a desire to support Israel in every way shape and form possible because God says to do that in the bible; or because you think it will genuinely bring about peace in the region?

[Jedidiah]

Jerusalem is the Israeli capital. It is not and never has been the capital of Syria. This is a bogus argument.

None of the so-called Palestinian leaders want a two state solution except as a step toward eliminating Israel altogether.

[Darth Executor]

Do the Palestinians also get to declare Jerusalem their capital? Can Syria do it? Can ISIS?

Can China simply declare that Taiwan is its new capital?

What a stupid comparison. Israel owns Jerusalem. The Palestinians own only what the Israelis allow them to own, and because they're stupid and keep trying to destroy an enemy that has long crushed them they will eventually be left with nothing.

The situation with Israel is that the international community has been trying for decades to work towards a two-state peace plan for the region, and Israel and the US keep subverting that process, as do occasionally various Palestinian terrorist elements. Israel can, of course, keep stealing Palestinian land and throwing the Palestinian people there off it and bulldozing their homes and building fortified settlements full of Jewish people on that land in defiance of various UN resolutions demanding they stop doing this. Like they can also name Jerusalem their capital if they wish, but the international community obviously has zero obligation to acknowledge such a contentious move on the part of Israel.

The crazy progressive community have been trying to get Israel to abandon their land to a crazy enemy who hates them because they're a shade too light for all the white people hating liberals in Europe and the US.

I think potentially a better move, given the high number of Jews in the US, would be to designate an area of land in the US as being a new Jewish nation state, and try to encourage Jews to settle there, in a region of the world where their neighbors are much more accepting of them, rather than contentiously trying to aggressively expand the nation of Israel and displace the Palestinians who have lived there for thousands of years.

What a terrible idea. And Israel's other neighbors are pretty accepting of them. Seems to me resettling the palestinians makes more sense.

[Roy]

And Israel's other neighbors are pretty accepting of them.

[Starlight]

It's pure gold statements like that which keep me addicted to TWeb.

[One Bad Pig]

Do the Palestinians also get to declare Jerusalem their capital? Can Syria do it? Can ISIS?

Can China simply declare that Taiwan is its new capital?

Jerusalem has never functioned as the capital of the "Palestinians", or Syria, or ISIS. Taiwan (which is an island, not a city) has never functioned as the capital of China. Despite your more reasonable than usual tone in this post, this is one of your more absurd arguments.

[NorrinRadd]

Do the Palestinians also get to declare Jerusalem their capital? Can Syria do it? Can ISIS?

Asinine argument, given that Jerusalem is not within the national borders of any of those entities.

Can China simply declare that Taiwan is its new capital?

No. And FTR, I favor formally recognizing Taiwan, and urinating off the other Chinese.

The situation with Israel is that the international community has been trying for decades to work towards a two-state peace plan for the region, and Israel and the US keep subverting that process, as do occasionally various Palestinian terrorist elements. Israel can, of course, keep stealing Palestinian land and throwing the Palestinian people there off it and bulldozing their homes and building fortified settlements full of Jewish people on that land in defiance of various UN resolutions demanding they stop doing this. Like they can also name Jerusalem their capital if they wish, but the international community obviously has zero obligation to acknowledge such a contentious move on the part of Israel.

I think potentially a better move, given the high number of Jews in the US, would be to designate an area of land in the US as being a new Jewish nation state, and try to encourage Jews to settle there, in a region of the world where their neighbors are much more accepting of them, rather than contentiously trying to aggressively expand the nation of Israel and displace the Palestinians who have lived there for thousands of years.

Blah blah. It is no more natively the property of the so-called "Palestinians" than it is of the Jews.

I'm curious: Is your desire to see Jerusalem become Israel's capital out of a desire to trigger the literal Biblical apocalypse described in the book of Revelation;

No. I do not have a particularly dispensational view of eschatology.

... or out of a desire to support Israel in every way shape and form possible because God says to do that in the bible;

No. I like and respect Israel, and generally view them more favorably than their neighbors. And I feel sorrow for any of them who do not come to know the Truth, since Jesus was speaking to Jews when He said that any who do not believe Him to be I AM will die in their sins.

or because you think it will genuinely bring about peace in the region?

No. In the short term, it will bring (and has brought) more violence. In the longer term, I think it will have little effect on peace one way or the other.

[Sparko]

Also, Jerusalem has always been the capitol of Israel. The US just didn't recognize it as such until now. It would be like Russia claiming that Washington DC wasn't the capitol of the USA and insisted that Manhattan was the capitol until now.

[firstfloor]

Also, Jerusalem has always been the capitol of Israel. The US just didn't recognize it as such until now. It would be like Russia claiming that Washington DC wasn't the capitol of the USA and insisted that Manhattan was the capitol until now.

The legal status of East Jerusalem is disputed.
See also UNSCR 242 and 478.

[Jedidiah]

The legal status of East Jerusalem is disputed.
See also UNSCR 242 and 478.

The UN is a rampant anti Israel and anti Jew organization. And they have no authority in Israel. The dispute is a phony.

[Leonhard]

The legal status of East Jerusalem is disputed.
See also UNSCR 242 and 478.

As much as I sympathise with the Palestinians for the rough deals they've had, and some of the foolish wars they've tried to start, they're in a position where we can only tenuously call what they are a state. Israel, on the other hand, are the dominant force of power in that region. They control it and they have the resources to do so. For all the legitimate and complex criticisms one can give of how they manage it. That land is basically theirs, and they're trying to avoid a bloodbath, but its also clear that they want Jerusalem as their capitol city proper, and not just as an honorific title (while their government is stationed in Tel Aviv).

No solution is forth coming, and while I don't think it was a situation other governments were to meddle in, Trump has decided to break the ice on previous political decisions and do it any way in his random fashion.

Now its being done, so its what I support.

[Starlight]

The UN is a rampant anti Israel and anti Jew organization.

The UN is simply a forum in which member states can vote. If 91% of members states, including neutral countries on the other side of the world like my own country, are condemning Israel for human rights abuses and violations of international law... then perhaps it is because Israel is actually guilty?

151 UN STATES VOTE TO DISAVOW ISRAELI TIES TO JERUSALEM:

The UN General Assembly voted overwhelmingly to disavow Israeli ties to Jerusalem as part of six anti-Israel resolutions it approved on Thursday... The vote was 151 in favor and six against, with nine abstentions.

Each one of those 151 ambassadors condemning Israel is voting on behalf of their country. When you talk about the UN as an 'anti-Jew organisation' you are delusionally confusing the fact that the UN is a forum that allows countries to express their views, with the fact that the UN employs some civil servants to perform various functions. Getting rid of the UN organisation and its employees wouldn't somehow stop 91% of the world's nations from viewing Israel as a bad-faith actor and civil-rights violator.

Are you are wannabe fascist world dictator who hates that nations other than the US actually have opinions? Or do you just hate that there exists a public forum like the UN in which they get to express those opinions? Or do you just not understand the basics that these are open votes in which every country in the world is voting, rather than some sort of deep-state-UN-conspiracy where the employees at the UN have some sort of deep organisational hatred of Jews?