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Should Al Franken Resign?

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  • Sparko's post reminded me about this conversation. I was thinking about it the other day - how variable the term PC is, and realized it is not just variable across people, it is variable across time. Many years ago, it was considered normal to refer to someone with cognitive challenges as a "retard" or an "embicile." The latter term even appeared in a notorious SCOTUS ruling about the legality of forced sterilization on such people. When people began to suggest that such language was insulting and harmful, they were labeled "PC." As time marched on, more and more people accepted that the terms were indeed demeaning and these people were also worthy of being treated with dignity, and the tide changed. Today, very few people would consider it "PC" to avoid such language - but they are not ALL gone - there are still people who think it is PC to insist that "retard" and "imbicile" is not appropriate language when referring to people who are cognitively challenged.

    Today, the word "disabled" is going through a similar shift. Young people see the word "dis" as synonymous with "insult."

    "Wow, he really dissed you," means "Wow, he really insulted you."

    So more and more people are seeing "disabled" as a disparaging word, emphasizing the negative (a reduction in abilities) instead of the positive. There is still widespread accusation of "PC" about this as people struggle to find the right terminology, all of which simply feels clumsy at this point: "differently abled," "cognitively challeged," and so forth. Eventually, the language will settle on a new norm and avoiding "disabled" won't be considered PC anymore, it will be a normal part of speech - but there will probably always be some resisters.

    These are only two examples. Sparko's note brings another one to light: "Happy holidays." When this country was VERY widely Christian, "Merry Christmas" was the norm. As the country has seen a greater and greated infusion of different faiths, and a reduction in the proportion of Christians, people have begun to see that using a single faith's holiday language is exclusive. So, "Happy Holidays" is being substituted as being more inclusive of all faiths. After all, there are multiple celebrations at this time: Christmas, Kwanzaa, Hanukkah, and so forth. So I greet someone by their particular holiday greeting if I know their faith (i.e., "Merry Christmas" to the Christian, "Happy Hanukkah" to the Jew, and so forth) and "Happy Holidays" to someone who's faith I do not know, or to a large group with multiple people in it who could have different faiths. I consider it a matter of politeness. I am not offended if someone greets me using a greeting that reflects THEIR faith, but I do not choose to do so.

    I recognize that "PC" is a term that is used to refer to someone who insists on anally exacting language - but I find it is also used as a term to dismiss language that is changing and people do not like or want the change. And, with the onset of the "Trump" phenomenon - it has gone well beyond that, and is being used as a kudgle to express dissatisfaction by the right to positions tkaen by the left, and a convenient way to dismiss things the right is resisting listening to. I have never heard someone on the left accusing someone on the right of being PC - which is to be expected. Conservatives tend to want things to stay the same and resist shifts, even in language. Progressives tend to look for places where things need to change and work to make those changes. So it is more likely that the left will be advocating for a change in language than the right.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • No, the problem with political correctness is that liberals have this bizarre notion that they have a right to not be offended, and so if you say something that they happen to find offensive (which can change from day to day), they demand that you be restrained in some fashion even though you're doing nothing more than exercising your God given right to freely express yourself.

      It's really a subversive way of winning debates by arbitrarily restricting the language your opponent is allowed to use.
      Last edited by Mountain Man; 12-20-2017, 07:59 AM.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        No, the problem with political correctness is that liberals have this bizarre notion that they have a right to not be offended, and so if you say something that they happen to find offensive (which can change from day to day), they demand that you be restrained in some fashion even though you're doing nothing more than exercising your God given right to freely express yourself.
        Pretty much. It boils down to some liberal elite gets to control what you're allowed to say. I remember when they first came up with this "hate speech" notion, and thought they left the "free" out of the middle. Because they seem to hate free speech, unless it's their own.

        Now, because there are persons of lesser intelligence who would jump on that to construe it to mean something it does not, I'll clarify - I don't think we need to be rude, but I don't think people should look for any reason to be offended, either.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          I also suspect that in a couple of decades, Mommy is going to hold a press conference and accuse Santa Claus of sexual assault.
          That... that was Dad, right?
          "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
          Hear my cry, hear my shout,
          Save me, save me"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            No, the problem with political correctness is that liberals have this bizarre notion that they have a right to not be offended, and so if you say something that they happen to find offensive (which can change from day to day), they demand that you be restrained in some fashion even though you're doing nothing more than exercising your God given right to freely express yourself.

            It's really a subversive way of winning debates by arbitrarily restricting the language your opponent is allowed to use.
            So give me an example of a debate that can be won (or has been won) by designating a word as "politically correct?"
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Pretty much. It boils down to some liberal elite gets to control what you're allowed to say. I remember when they first came up with this "hate speech" notion, and thought they left the "free" out of the middle. Because they seem to hate free speech, unless it's their own.

              Now, because there are persons of lesser intelligence who would jump on that to construe it to mean something it does not, I'll clarify - I don't think we need to be rude, but I don't think people should look for any reason to be offended, either.
              And when we discover that our language is needlessly insulting and harmful - like "retard" and "imbicile" - we should...?
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                That... that was Dad, right?
                Dad sexually assaulted Santa?
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  And when we discover that our language is needlessly insulting and harmful - like "retard" and "imbicile" - we should...?
                  You picked bad examples. Most of us would agree those are unnecessary and hurtful. "Retard" more so than "imbecile". In fact, one of our denominational leaders made a comment in an email recently, after being corrected on a wrong date he included in a previous email, "Yes, my bad - I had a retard moment".

                  I hesitated to jump on him, because I figured others would. The best response came from another pastor who said, "Brother, I know you meant nothing by it, but Sandy and I have a son with 'intellectual disabilities', and this would be a great disappointment to him". (and, yes, others "replied all" with polite reprimands)
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    That "higher power" smacks of slavery, you bigot.
                    yeah the list has some problems. Like "gentlemen" -- it should be "nonviolent persons"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      No, the problem with political correctness is that liberals have this bizarre notion that they have a right to not be offended, and so if you say something that they happen to find offensive (which can change from day to day), they demand that you be restrained in some fashion even though you're doing nothing more than exercising your God given right to freely express yourself.

                      It's really a subversive way of winning debates by arbitrarily restricting the language your opponent is allowed to use.
                      Pretty soon even "Happy Holidays" will be thrown out because holidays really means "holy days".

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                        Pretty soon even "Happy Holidays" will be thrown out because holidays really means "holy days".
                        And "happy" could be an insult to Grinches!
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          yeah the list has some problems. Like "gentlemen" -- it should be "nonviolent persons"
                          So, rewrite it for us!
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            Today, the word "disabled" is going through a similar shift. Young people see the word "dis" as synonymous with "insult."

                            "Wow, he really dissed you," means "Wow, he really insulted you."
                            "Dis" isn't short for "disabled", it's short for "disrespect".

                            Comment


                            • Many times Liberals use PC as a distraction and a club. Rather than taking a topic head on, they will focus on a term and claim they (or some other group) is being offended by it. It is a passive-aggressive way of turning the tables on their opponent and attacking their character rather than dealing with the subject.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                                "Dis" isn't short for "disabled", it's short for "disrespect".
                                I know, Adrift. That's my point. Because "dis" is associated with disrespect (insult), there is a growing consensus that "disable" evokes that idea and the word should shift. It also focuses on the lack of ability, rather than affirming the ability. As with many such shifts, this one is starting with the community that most closely works with these people. I was awakened to it by a special educator. When my own son was diagnosed with learning challenges, I began to realize just how it impacted me when someone called him "disabled." I was surprised to find that I could not get him on a 504 or IEP unless an evaluation of him was written, and that word HAD to be used - by law. The school accused me of "denying he had a need" because I was advocating for them to stop using that term about (but especially around) my son. I could see the impact it had on him, each time someone used that word about him in his hearing. I saw the tears - I heard the pain he expressed.

                                Until I had that experience, I never thought twice about "disabled." Now that I have had the experience, I am a strong advocate for shifting the language. To many, I have crossed over to "politically correct." I am the "word nazi." To me - I am a father looking to minimize the pain my son is experiencing, and doesn't have to experience, if people would just be a bit more careful about what words they use.

                                So when someone comes to me, today, and tells me that something about my language is hurting someone else - I pay attention. I don't dismiss them as "PC." I look for the human being that is expressing hurt, and look for what I can do, without really harming myself in any way, to help them with that hurt. Changing a word here and there is simply not too big a price to pay.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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