Roy Moore accused of sexual contact with 14-year old

[JimL]

Yes idiot it was literally his signature as copied from a stamp on the forger's divorce papers, like I already explained.

Then why didn't he make that point when asked by Sean Hannity? He never denied it was his note, or his signature, and btw it's the same writing with the same signature as submitted by his third and latest accuser, Debbie Gibson. Do you want to argue that the signature on her note from Moore is a stamp as well. Idiot!

[Teallaura]

Thats Alabama think I guess! The note and signature in the year book is not meant to be proof of his guilt, it is meant to be proof of Moores lie that he never knew any of these accusers. He also lied about knowing and dating a third accuser, who also came up with an old note he had written and signed for her. So, the question is who are you going to believe the many women with corroborating evidence or the man who has proven himself to be lying all along? Franken btw, is the only one to have shown any moral character at all in that he admitted to the validity of the accusations and apologised.

1) Correct, partially - Moore didn't deny having known them at all - he denied doing what he was accused of - and because it's now suspect because of that little 'addition', it's not good evidence of anything.
2) I don't believe either of the two - which by the way, is not 'many' - accusers. One has admitted to tampering with evidence and the other has major issues with reliability. Even if I did it was 38 years ago and there are zero accusations after that time. Not exactly a pattern of behavior and no one should be convicted in the media when the courts are no longer willing to even indite.
3) Innocent people shouldn't apologize for things they didn't do - not apologizing when you are claiming innocence isn't suspect. Franken's apology undid him in large part - it rang self serving and I suspect irritated others into coming forward. I'm now presuming guilt because he's acting like he was guilty - stepping down can be taken as an admission. Honestly, if I only had what was in the media before last week and was on the jury, I probably would vote to acquit as I didn't think that case was all that strong, either. Stronger, granted, than the pathetic case against Moore, but not sufficient to prove to a preponderance, let alone the criminal standard.

[Darth Executor]

Then why didn't he make that point when asked by Sean Hannity?

I doubt he remembers every note he signed.

He never denied it was his note, or his signature, and btw it's the same writing with the same signature as submitted by his third and latest accuser, Debbie Gibson. Do you want to argue that the signature on her note from Moore is a stamp as well. Idiot!

We already know it's from a stamp because she put his assistant's initials on it, you obtuse cretin. I'm getting tired of having to explain this to you. This is simply not a disputable point. Then again, there are no lows you won't go to in order to lie to protect your progressive cult. After your passionate defense of nambla nothing surprises me about you anymore, you are the definition of an utterly corrupt partisan zombie.

And gibson is not "the third accuser" because she's not actually accusing him of anything except dating her at 17 (a nothingburger).

[Teallaura]

A photograph of Franken literally caught in the act is weak evidence?

Yep, because that photo is evidence of reprisal for the actual accusation - the kiss. It's not great evidence - the careers come into play - but it is good supporting evidence. Like I said, the case is stronger - but it's not air tight the way you want to believe.

[Mountain Man]

Yep, because that photo is evidence of reprisal for the actual accusation - the kiss. It's not great evidence - the careers come into play - but it is good supporting evidence. Like I said, the case is stronger - but it's not air tight the way you want to believe.

As I've said, even if Tweedan lied about everything else, the picture alone should be enough to force Franken's resignation.

[Teallaura]

As I've said, even if Tweedan lied about everything else, the picture alone should be enough to force Franken's resignation.

And I disagree - but not by a lot.

[rogue06]

Did Franken resign? Last I heard he announced that he "will resign" in "the next few weeks". And even CNN calls it "Al Franken's totally unapologetic resignation".

The guy is a total BOZO. That you hold him up as an example of virtue shows how truly twisted your thinking is.

He has announced his attention to resign. There is an extremely outside chance that if Moore wins that Franken will rescind his plan to resign.

[rogue06]

The difference between you and me, Jimmy, is that I know I'm not a handwriting expert. And, even if it's the same, what does it prove?

My brother, who works a lot with autographed documents and has them regularly authenticated (he's buddies with the guy who does the authenticating on Pawn Stars now), has told me several times that nobody will do an authentication based on a picture of the writing. They can often spot a clumsy forgery that way but will never authenticate anything based on a picture.

[rogue06]

For one thing CP, Moore basically admitted that it was his note and signature when only denying the added on date and location of its writing. Take that and compare it to the handwriting in the note Moore sent to Debbie Gibson, another girl that he denies ever knowing, and you can see they are the same handwriting. And what it proves is that he's lying about everything when he says he never had a relationship with any of these girls. That's all that the notes were intended to prove CP, that Moore is lying, and if he is lying about that, about even knowing the girls, then why should we believe him over the girls concerning their accussations? Btw, I'm not a handwriting expert either. Do you know what handwriting experts do CP, they use their eyes and they compare. I think even you can do that CP.

I think it was more of a case that he was reluctant to deny it not being able to remember for certain whether he ever signed someone's year book some four decades ago.

[Cow Poke]

My brother, who works a lot with autographed documents and has them regularly authenticated (he's buddies with the guy who does the authenticating on Pawn Stars now), has told me several times that nobody will do an authentication based on a picture of the writing. They can often spot a clumsy forgery that way but will never authenticate anything based on a picture.

Yeah, as Sparko pointed out (he's right occasionally) the lighting and other factors can affect the appearance, even frame by frame in a video. If it were able to be done by video or photo, Pawn Stars would never have that guy come look at the actual documents - they could videoconference.

I've also been to a number of FBI seminars as a police officer - several on forgeries - and there's always that "look and feel" emphasis. They want to touch, handle, even smell...

[Cow Poke]

For one thing CP, Moore basically admitted that it was his note and signature when only denying the added on date and location of its writing. Take that and compare it to the handwriting in the note Moore sent to Debbie Gibson, another girl that he denies ever knowing, and you can see they are the same handwriting. And what it proves is that he's lying about everything when he says he never had a relationship with any of these girls.

OK, you can support an accusation that he lied. Please continue....

That's all that the notes were intended to prove CP, that Moore is lying, and if he is lying about that, about even knowing the girls, then why should we believe him over the girls concerning their accussations?

Why should we believe the girls with no credible evidence, even if he is a liar? That's now how this works, Jimmy.

Btw, I'm not a handwriting expert either.

You're probably as good at that as you are the law, or logic, or reason or any other topic!

Do you know what handwriting experts do CP, they use their eyes and they compare. I think even you can do that CP.

So, let's see... you admit you're not a handwriting expert, but you think I should be?

I'll tell ya what --- go outside, take a walk, try to clear your mind, and give this another shot, eh?

[Cow Poke]

He has announced his attention to resign. There is an extremely outside chance that if Moore wins that Franken will rescind his plan to resign.

Yeah, I think he's hoping for a last minute reprieve. And I actually thought that - maybe if Moore wins, he thinks he can convince his buddies that he needs to stay. I think he's honestly in deep denial that his buddies threw him overboard.

[rogue06]

Yeah, as Sparko pointed out (he's right occasionally)

A truly scary concept

[Cow Poke]

A truly scary concept

OK, so he's not always terribly wrong.

[JimL]

OK, you can support an accusation that he lied. Please continue....

If the accusations were false CP, if the good judge didn't know these girls as he asserts, then he would have no reason to lie about anything, including whether or not he wrote and signed notes and letters to them. The fact that he's lying about even knowing them is evidence that his denials concerning their accusations against him are also lies. This isn't a court of law, it's what you believe according to the evidence. It's about whether you believe all these women coming forward are making all this up or if you believe Moore who has already been shown to be lying about it.

Why should we believe the girls with no credible evidence, even if he is a liar? That's now how this works, Jimmy.

Well that's just dumb. If Moore is lying in any way with respect to these accusations, for instance, lying about ever having known these girls, then that is evidence that he is covering up. Again, this isn't about a court of law, it's about your opinion based on the evidence. You apparently believe that these girls are just making this all up for some ridiculous reason and that the judge is just an innocent angel being framed. Of course, I don't expect your mind to ever be changed, you apparently believed the same thing with respect to the women who accused Trump, that they're all just making stuff up even though he is himself a self admitted sexual predator of women.

You're probably as good at that as you are the law, or logic, or reason or any other topic!

Feeling's mutual CP.

So, let's see... you admit you're not a handwriting expert, but you think I should be?

Didn't say you need be an expert CP, actually said just the opposite, just said all you need do is be honest and use your head. There's more than 1 note denied by, and signed by Moore. Are they both lying, are they both forgeries, are they both putting themselves at risk of criminal charges in attempting to frame the good judge?

I'll tell ya what --- go outside, take a walk, try to clear your mind, and give this another shot, eh?

No need, we all know that there's no getting through to the knuckleheaded Moore/Trump defenders.