What happens next?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

So that you can continue another battle.

What is hostile about asking for clarification?

No.

Why "No"?

Do you consider Paul believed in a physical resurrection with the attendant bodily functions and needs?

[CivilDiscourse]

Why are you concerned?

It seems I have touched a nerve. Do you not hold yourself to standards you hold others?

You are the one who frequently dismisses people's comments based on their lack of expertise. Since you are so interested in the Bible, I am asking you what your qualifications are. You seem to be upset about being asked that question.

I ask again, Are you a qualified biblical scholar?

[Sparko]

You would learn quite a lot from Geza Vermes, whereas I couldn't learn anything about Jesus from Paul's stuff......he never actually quoted Jesus!


If Jesus did not say it then you are wandering off in to Pauline or Church dogma, imo.
So sending me off to read Paul can't help me much.

But I think we can both agree now that people cannot be saved ' by faith alone'. Once in the church you have to follow the laws and rules like sheep, with the ever lasting threat of eternal agony in hell for those who don't.

As for recent conversations with Hypatia_Alexandria which have mentioned that Christians can have their mammon in heaven, what an amazing idea, considering Jesus' comments about mammon. You can't have 'spirit' plus your earthly garbage, can you?

again, we won't be in "heaven" as in a spirit realm. We will be living on Earth, in physical bodies. We will have houses, food, tools, transportation and other technology. That is not "mammon" - there will be no greed or wealth or poverty. God created us as physical beings for a reason. Why after doing that would he have us spend eternity as spirits?

Just read the bible. It is not just Paul who makes these claims. John did in Revelation, Isaiah in the OT also. And Jesus himself resurrected in a body.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

It seems I have touched a nerve. Do you not hold yourself to standards you hold others?

You are the one who frequently dismisses people's comments based on their lack of expertise. Since you are so interested in the Bible, I am asking you what your qualifications are. You seem to be upset about being asked that question.

I ask again, Are you a qualified biblical scholar?

You assume incorrectly. I am merely curious as to why you are curious. And does any of it matter?

I doubt your comments on Civics are premised on your academic qualifications on the various subjects you write about.

However, I have read a great deal.

[Cow Poke]

What is hostile about asking for clarification?

Your posting history. You have never really shown an interest in "learning", but in arguing.

Why "No"?

Do you consider Paul believed in a physical resurrection with the attendant bodily functions and needs?

Why did you ignore my request to actually cite a verse or passage?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

again, we won't be in "heaven" as in a spirit realm. We will be living on Earth, in physical bodies. We will have houses, food, tools, transportation and other technology. That is not "mammon" - there will be no greed or wealth or poverty. God created us as physical beings for a reason. Why after doing that would he have us spend eternity as spirits?

Just read the bible. It is not just Paul who makes these claims. John did in Revelation, Isaiah in the OT also. And Jesus himself resurrected in a body.

[CivilDiscourse]

You assume incorrectly. I am merely curious as to why you are curious. And does any of it matter?

I doubt your comments on Civics are premised on your academic qualifications on the various subjects you write about.

However, I have read a great deal.

I am always curious if you hold yourself to the standards you use against others in your arguments. Frequently, you have shown that you do not.

You are the one who frequently dismisses people's comments based on their lack of expertise. Since you are so interested in the Bible, I am asking you what your qualifications are. You seem to be upset about being asked that question.

I ask again, Are you a qualified biblical scholar?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Your posting history. You have never really shown an interest in "learning", but in arguing.

If by that you mean that I unquestioningly accept what you tell me, then you are correct.

Why did you ignore my request to actually cite a verse or passage?

I am interested first and foremost why you wrote "No" in reply to my comment:

Paul appears to distinguish between the flesh and the body and it seems likely he believed that spiritual bodies were physical but on a higher level and without the flesh i.e. the needs/wants, or what he would consider sin, of the physical body.

[Cow Poke]

If by that you mean that I accept what you tell me, then you are correct.





I am interested first and foremost why you wrote "No" in reply to my comment:

Paul appears to distinguish between the flesh and the body and it seems likely he believed that spiritual bodies were physical but on a higher level and without the flesh i.e. the needs/wants, or what he would consider sin, of the physical body.

Because you don't even understand the basic concepts of "flesh" and "spirit" in the Bible. As you so often do, you revert to a dictionary definition of a word rather than biblical context.

I'll not be playing, thank you.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Because you don't even understand the basic concepts of "flesh" and "spirit" in the Bible. As you so often do, you revert to a dictionary definition of a word rather than biblical context.

I'll not be playing, thank you.

I am referencing the way the English term spirit was understood in the ancient world. Now if you want to simply ignore that, that is your prerogative.

[Cow Poke]

I am referencing the way the English term spirit was understood in the ancient world. Now if you want to simply ignore that, that is your prerogative.

A) I was referring to your use of the word 'flesh'.
2) Just because a term was "understood" a certain way "in the ancient world" does not mean Paul is using it in that manner.
c) I'm well aware I can ignore you if I wish.

[Sparko]

Paul writes in I Corinthians chapter fifteen that:

What I am saying, brothers and sisters, is this: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God......

For this perishable body must put on imperishability, and this mortal body must put on immortality,

The question hinges on what Paul understood as flesh. From his writings he seems to have held ideas similar in some respects to the Stoics although whether he had direct knowledge of that philosophical school is unknown.

Nor in the ancient world were souls and spirits immaterial as they are now viewed by those who believe in such things. These entities were believed to be material but their material was far superior to that of the physical body.

Hence it may be considered that Paul's idea of Jesus being physically raised referred to a spiritual body that was deemed physical but physical in a completely different manner from how we would comprehend the term.. And that likewise believers would be resurrected in similar fashion.

Why are you arguing about what Christians believe? You are not a Christian. What you think the bible says doesn't even matter. The question was about what Christians believe and Christians believe we will be resurrected in physical eternal bodies just like Jesus was. And we will live on the New Earth.

Paul was talking about the motivation and the type of body we will have. It will be motivated by spiritual things not material things. The "flesh and blood" Paul mentions is an idiom for "mortal" The mortal, sinful body cannot inherit the kingdom of God. It must be changed into something new, an eternal body like Jesus'. That is how Christians have understood the teachings of Paul and others in the bible for 2000 years. Nobody cares what you think about what he meant now.

[Sparko]

Are you a qualified biblical scholar?

She is not. She is not even a Christian, so she has no idea what Christians believe or why.

[Sparko]

From an atheist p.o.v.: All Christian doctrines are false. All Christians say that the doctrines of some other Christians are false. All Christians are putting their faith in a false god.

When you understand that you saying JW's are false Christians is of no more consequence than JWs saying that you are a false Christian, you will have achieved enlightenment.

I understand that. I am not trying to tell you what Atheists believe. As an atheist, I will take your word on it. All I ask is HA (and you) give us the same courtesy. Just as what I think about atheists (or JWs) doesn't matter to you, what you think about Christians or about what we believe doesn't matter to us. We KNOW what we believe. HA and eider are arguing with us about what we actually believe as if we don't know.

[Sparko]

You are showing more of your ignorance.