Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

What happens next?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    You have zero evidence that the Pharisees just used the Hebrew scriptures as you claimed out of the blue, but demand "attested evidence" that they used the LXX too?

    Plenty of indirect evidence to show the probability of using the Septuagint - from Rabbinical (Pharisee) focus on teaching from the Hasmonean period and forward in Synagogues; known to have used the LXX, through to the abrupt abandonment of the Septuagint when Christianity began to gain a foothold after the crucifixion of Christ. (the more direct OT references to the messiah mentioned in the LXX seem to have been an embarrassment, but the Pharisees set about producing a redacted Hebrew version of the OT, which now is known as the MT.)
    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
    Scripture before Tradition:
    but that won't prevent others from
    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
    of the right to call yourself Christian.

    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

      You have zero evidence that the Pharisees just used the Hebrew scriptures as you claimed out of the blue, but demand "attested evidence" that they used the LXX too?

      From the community in Qumran, there is little evidence that Greek was a language being used by that community. Of course it cannot be ruled out that some of them knew Greek and there are fragments of scriptural texts in Greek found in some of the caves. In cave 4 there are eight Greek texts. This may indicate that whomsoever person[s] who brought those texts had used them previously, which would indicate that those person[s] knew Greek. However, there remains the possibility that the texts came from an existing archive, in which case the members of that community would not have required a knowledge of Greek. In comparison to other sites in the Judaean Desert Qumran has a small number of Greek texts; however, most of the other sites in the desert date from a later historical period. Moreover the Qumran texts are mainly religious.


      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        From the community in Qumran, there is little evidence that Greek was a language being used by that community.
        Of course they weren't Pharisee and they did have a few texts in Greek.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Of course they weren't Pharisee and they did have a few texts in Greek.
          Details, details....

          They also had a recension of Jeremiah in Hebrew which supports the LXX ordering of the book.
          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

            Plenty of indirect evidence to show the probability of using the Septuagint - from Rabbinical (Pharisee) focus on teaching from the Hasmonean period and forward in Synagogues; known to have used the LXX, through to the abrupt abandonment of the Septuagint when Christianity began to gain a foothold after the crucifixion of Christ. (the more direct OT references to the messiah mentioned in the LXX seem to have been an embarrassment, but the Pharisees set about producing a redacted Hebrew version of the OT, which now is known as the MT.)
            The heirs of the Pharisees also forbade the reading of what's known as intertestamental texts (on pain of excommunication) and writing anything down.
            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

            Comment


            • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              The heirs of the Pharisees also forbade the reading of what's known as intertestamental texts (on pain of excommunication)
              Unsurprising, given that the content of some of those texts was fairly explicit regarding the messiah, including the "Son of Man" appellation for the messiah, which elsewhere is applied to an ordinarily human prophet.

              and writing anything down.
              Surprising.
              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
              .
              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
              Scripture before Tradition:
              but that won't prevent others from
              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
              of the right to call yourself Christian.

              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

              Comment


              • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                Plenty of indirect evidence to show the probability of using the Septuagint - from Rabbinical (Pharisee) focus on teaching from the Hasmonean period and forward in Synagogues; known to have used the LXX, through to the abrupt abandonment of the Septuagint when Christianity began to gain a foothold after the crucifixion of Christ. (the more direct OT references to the messiah mentioned in the LXX seem to have been an embarrassment, but the Pharisees set about producing a redacted Hebrew version of the OT, which now is known as the MT.)
                This makes one wonder why modern English translations favor the MT as the basis for the OT Scriptures. Or am I mistaken about that?
                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                Beige Federalist.

                Nationalist Christian.

                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                Justice for Matthew Perna!

                Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                  This makes one wonder why modern English translations favor the MT as the basis for the OT Scriptures. Or am I mistaken about that?
                  Because they are in the original language rather than using a translation?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                    This makes one wonder why modern English translations favor the MT as the basis for the OT Scriptures. Or am I mistaken about that?
                    They do - but aside from the Torah, much of the earlier (verifiable) Tanach seems to be missing - not even the Dead Sea scrolls make a reconstruction possible.
                    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                    .
                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                    Scripture before Tradition:
                    but that won't prevent others from
                    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                    of the right to call yourself Christian.

                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                      They do - but aside from the Torah, much of the earlier (verifiable) Tanach seems to be missing - not even the Dead Sea scrolls make a reconstruction possible.
                      yet
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        yet
                        Ah yes - there is always "yet."
                        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                        .
                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                        Scripture before Tradition:
                        but that won't prevent others from
                        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                        of the right to call yourself Christian.

                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                          They do - but aside from the Torah, much of the earlier (verifiable) Tanach seems to be missing - not even the Dead Sea scrolls make a reconstruction possible.
                          I have a copy of the Dead Sea Scrolls Bible, and the DSS are quite helpful in making reconstructions. Newer Bible translations tend to make use of them.
                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            I have a copy of the Dead Sea Scrolls Bible, and the DSS are quite helpful in making reconstructions. Newer Bible translations tend to make use of them.
                            Seems my information about them needs updating.
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment

                            Related Threads

                            Collapse

                            Topics Statistics Last Post
                            Started by Cow Poke, Yesterday, 06:18 AM
                            19 responses
                            138 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post rogue06
                            by rogue06
                             
                            Started by Cow Poke, Yesterday, 06:02 AM
                            64 responses
                            320 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post Cow Poke  
                            Started by CivilDiscourse, 06-23-2024, 08:09 PM
                            15 responses
                            104 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post seer
                            by seer
                             
                            Started by seer, 06-23-2024, 02:39 PM
                            5 responses
                            55 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post Cow Poke  
                            Started by NorrinRadd, 06-22-2024, 06:14 PM
                            7 responses
                            78 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post rogue06
                            by rogue06
                             
                            Working...
                            X