Dashcam recording of Castile's shooting released.

[Teallaura]

His not acting correctly resulted in his taking the life of an innocent person. Negligent manslaughter.

Thanks Jim.

Is that correct, Carry?

[Carrikature]

I'm not sure I'm following your point, Carry. No one is arguing that the officer acted correctly - are you arguing that he should have been convicted or that there should have been other charges?

My point is that, in general, the hype around how much danger officers are in (frequently touted in this forum) isn't backed by the data. I find this to be typical of scenarios where humans are afraid of possible outcomes. The fear and suspicion displayed aren't justified by reality.


As for the charges/convictions, I don't know. As best I can tell, the jury acquitted not based on evidence but based on wording of the laws. They don't think he did nothing wrong, but the laws just don't cover this scenario. I think he just got off on a technicality. More troubling, imo, is that this guy is free to pursue employment at another PD. Our legal system doesn't address that sort of outcome, though.

[Carrikature]

My brother is a cop. I know they are trained on how to approach vehicles, how to keep people in view, and place them to avoid just such incidents. The ambushes usually happen when the officer is too lax or not paying attention and not following his training. Without this training you can be sure there would be a lot more police deaths.

I know they are trained in this way. What you haven't established is how many cases were avoided due to this training. That's the claim you have to support.


ETA: This bit about "you can be sure" is precisely what I'm challenging. Do more than just say so.

[Carrikature]

Thanks Jim.

Is that correct, Carry?

I think that's the technicality: that 'culpable negligence' doesn't apply here. It would be culpable negligence if I was waving around a loaded weapon and killed someone, or if we were playing chicken with our vehicles. That seems to be the intent of the law.

[Teallaura]

My point is that, in general, the hype around how much danger officers are in (frequently touted in this forum) isn't backed by the data. I find this to be typical of scenarios where humans are afraid of possible outcomes. The fear and suspicion displayed aren't justified by reality.


As for the charges/convictions, I don't know. As best I can tell, the jury acquitted not based on evidence but based on wording of the laws. They don't think he did nothing wrong, but the laws just don't cover this scenario. I think he just got off on a technicality. More troubling, imo, is that this guy is free to pursue employment at another PD. Our legal system doesn't address that sort of outcome, though.

I think that's the technicality: that 'culpable negligence' doesn't apply here. It would be culpable negligence if I was waving around a loaded weapon and killed someone, or if we were playing chicken with our vehicles. That seems to be the intent of the law.

Okay, fair enough.

[Tassman]

Sorry, but that implies reckless or criminal behavior. The officer was not acting in a reckless or criminal manner. He was performing his duties and overreacted.

Well yes, he "overreacted"

[Roy]

This was a tragic incident. It was not murder.

Has Yanez shown any remorse? I haven't seen any suggestion that he has.

[Bill the Cat]

Well yes, he "overreacted" in such a way as to cause a death.

Which comes with the job. Sorry it doesn't tickle your fancy, but until you've lived every day with the real fear that you may not come home tonight, and not just "I may get struck in the chest by a whipped cream can exploding" fear, you have no idea how hard that type of decision is to make in such a short span of 1 or 2 seconds.

It got more. It got a trial to determine if it was more than a tragic mistake. The jury found that it wasn't.

His job is to serve and protect AND to manage situations that are hazardous to his life and safety.

[Bill the Cat]

Has Yanez shown any remorse? I haven't seen any suggestion that he has.

http://kstp.com/news/jeronimo-yanez-...stile/4516223/

Ploussard also said he believed Yanez showed remorse while on the stand.

[Catholicity]

The whole situation is really sad all the way around. The officer isn't on the force anymore as it should be. However in the U.S; until any law changes if an officer asks if you have a gun you should hold your hands up and say where the gun is and ask them to take it before reaching for your license and registration and the gun registration. While yes I agree there is still some race issues with officers especially ones that go on a power trip, every person at a stop should cooperate with an officer's instructions to avoid this kind of situation and others. Non cooperation can lead to extra charges jail time, fines. He could have walked away with a minor traffic ticket or a warning. Mind you I know good officers and bad officers, I've encountered both, but I have never not cooperated with an officer and never had an issue. of course I don't have a gun, warrants or outstanding tickets either. but even if I did, cooperation is still important. A reminder to those of us who are Christians to pray for our police forces, the widow and her daughter, and the officer who did the shooting.

[Carrikature]

The whole situation is really sad all the way around. The officer isn't on the force anymore as it should be. However in the U.S; until any law changes if an officer asks if you have a gun you should hold your hands up and say where the gun is and ask them to take it before reaching for your license and registration and the gun registration. While yes I agree there is still some race issues with officers especially ones that go on a power trip, every person at a stop should cooperate with an officer's instructions to avoid this kind of situation and others. Non cooperation can lead to extra charges jail time, fines. He could have walked away with a minor traffic ticket or a warning. Mind you I know good officers and bad officers, I've encountered both, but I have never not cooperated with an officer and never had an issue. of course I don't have a gun, warrants or outstanding tickets either. but even if I did, cooperation is still important. A reminder to those of us who are Christians to pray for our police forces, the widow and her daughter, and the officer who did the shooting.

Just want to point out that the officer never asked about the gun. That information was volunteered. Castile was cooperating with instructions.

[Teallaura]

Has Yanez shown any remorse? I haven't seen any suggestion that he has.

Just an FYI: it's not a fair question during a trial process. No attorney worth anything is going to let his client make public statements of remorse that could potentially end up in evidence. The accused could be crying his eyes out daily in grief and remorse - but the attorney is going to do his dead level best to keep that information out of the public eye. His job is to help his client - not do PR or damage control for the employer.

[One Bad Pig]

Just want to point out that the officer never asked about the gun. That information was volunteered. Castile was cooperating with instructions.

....until he wasn't. That's the reason he got shot!

[JimL]

....until he wasn't. That's the reason he got shot!

He was cooperating, he was reaching for his wallet to get out his license like the officer asked him to do. Then the officer said don't pull it out. Well he wasn't pulling the gun out, he was pulling his wallet out like he was asked to do. The officer simply freaked out, never saw a gun, and shot the guy 7 times.

[Tassman]

Which comes with the job. Sorry it doesn't tickle your fancy, but until you've lived every day with the real fear that you may not come home tonight, and not just "I may get struck in the chest by a whipped cream can exploding" fear, you have no idea how hard that type of decision is to make in such a short span of 1 or 2 seconds.



It got more. It got a trial to determine if it was more than a tragic mistake. The jury found that it wasn't.



His job is to serve and protect AND to manage situations that are hazardous to his life and safety.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/