The Orbanisation of America

[firstfloor]

Orban spoke at CPAC.

It’s what you vote for but I wonder if it’s what you really want. Is there awareness among Christians of where you are headed?

[Starlight]

It's quite stunning... they seem to be taking notes from Dictator Orban of Hungary about how to achieve a similar right-wing dictatorship in the US.

Tucker Carlson went to Hungary to ask him how it's done. Now Dictator Orban came over to speak at CPAC. In the meantime he's been telling them that control of the media is key, and that shows like Tucker's should be broadcast 24/7.

And this is far from the first time recently that US conservatives have shown a love of open authoritarianism. There were posters in this forum who openly supposed the military in Myanmar overthrowing the democratically elected government there.

And prior to Dictator Orban being the favorite Eastern European dictator of the US right-wing, it was Putin, with many pointing to great things Putin was doing and saying and favorably comparing the propaganda picture of him riding a horse shirtless to pictures of Obama working out at a gym. Perhaps the only positive consequence of Putin's invasion of Ukraine has been that US right-wingers are no longer so willing to openly idolize Putin, although they seem to have transferred that love to Dictator Orban.

And today it came out US military generals were shocked and horrified when Trump complained to them that they weren't perfectly obedient the way he believed Hitler's generals had been during WWII.

There certainly seems quite open support for dictatorship(s) among US conservatives today, and quite a prevalent view among them that it would be fine for the US to have a dictator so long as they were conservative/right-wing. Democracy often seems to be undesirable to them, because they are concerned they are in the minority and that they would lose in a democratic system due to their votes getting outnumbered by people they don't like or don't value.

[rogue06]

It's quite stunning... they seem to be taking notes from Dictator Orban of Hungary about how to achieve a similar right-wing dictatorship in the US.

Tucker Carlson went to Hungary to ask him how it's done. Now Dictator Orban came over to speak at CPAC. In the meantime he's been telling them that control of the media is key, and that shows like Tucker's should be broadcast 24/7.

And this is far from the first time recently that US conservatives have shown a love of open authoritarianism. There were posters in this forum who openly supposed the military in Myanmar overthrowing the democratically elected government there.

And prior to Dictator Orban being the favorite Eastern European dictator of the US right-wing, it was Putin, with many pointing to great things Putin was doing and saying and favorably comparing the propaganda picture of him riding a horse shirtless to pictures of Obama working out at a gym. Perhaps the only positive consequence of Putin's invasion of Ukraine has been that US right-wingers are no longer so willing to openly idolize Putin, although they seem to have transferred that love to Dictator Orban.

And today it came out US military generals were shocked and horrified when Trump complained to them that they weren't perfectly obedient the way he believed Hitler's generals had been during WWII.

There certainly seems quite open support for dictatorship(s) among US conservatives today, and quite a prevalent view among them that it would be fine for the US to have a dictator so long as they were conservative/right-wing. Democracy often seems to be undesirable to them, because they are concerned they are in the minority and that they would lose in a democratic system due to their votes getting outnumbered by people they don't like or don't value.

"Dictator"?

Corrupt? Definitely. But a dictator? FWIU, the elections have all been aboveboard.

Given his pork barrel spending, patronage-like political style, eroding of judicial independence, family corruption, and even anti-Americanism one would think you and other leftists would be giddy with admiration.

Oh wait. Also gives lip service to Christian values and does not support the LGBTQ++++++++++ insanity.

Yup. Definite dictator.

[CivilDiscourse]

"Dictator"?

Corrupt? Definitely. But a dictator? FWIU, the elections have all been aboveboard.

Given his pork barrel spending, patronage-like political style, eroding of judicial independence, family corruption, and even anti-Americanism one would think you and other leftists would be giddy with admiration.

Oh wait. Also gives lip service to Christian values and does not support the LGBTQ++++++++++ insanity.

Yup. Definite dictator.

Now, if it was Fidel, were he still alive....they'd be all over him.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Orban spoke at CPAC.

It’s what you vote for but I wonder if it’s what you really want. Is there awareness among Christians of where you are headed?

From a paper published this year and well worth a read.

https://carrcenter.hks.harvard.edu/f...f?m=1659449668

The text that follows seeks to make an objective reflection on the state of the art of democracy in the world and in Brazil. To begin, it explores the concept of constitutional democracy, with the conclusion that it was the victorious ideology of the 20th century. Next, it analyzes the democratic backsliding in the contemporary world, in a context that has also been referred to as democratic recession, illiberal democracies, and abusive constitutionalism, amongst others. The diagnosis of current problems involves the identification of three conceptually distinct, but often associated phenomena: populism, extremism, and authoritarianism, as well as their political, economic-social, and cultural-identity causes. [...]

PopulismSome causes of the democratic erosion

Several factors led to the advance of right-wing populism in numerous countries, including the United States, Great Britain (Brexit), and Brazil. It is possible to systematize these different factors into three categories: political, economic-social, and cultural-identity. The political causes lie in the crisis of representativeness of contemporary democracies, in which the electoral process fails to give adequate voice and relevance to citizenship. “They don’t represent us” is the catchphrase of the moment. In part, because the political class has become a world apart, detached from civil society, and in part because of the feeling that globalized economic-financial power is what truly calls the shots. Hence the rise of those with the anti-elite, anti-globalization, and against the “old politics” discourse. The economic and social causes lie in the large contingent of workers and professionals who lost their jobs or saw their prospects for social ascension reduced, either because of endemic poverty or because they became less relevant in the world of globalization, the new knowledge economy, and automation, which weaken more traditional industries and activities. Not to mention the austerity measures defended by international organizations and countries with world economic leadership,34 which reduce social safety nets programs.

Finally, the cultural-identity causes: there is a contingent of people who do not profess the cosmopolitan, egalitarian, and multicultural creed that drives the progressive agenda of human rights, racial equality, feminist politics, gay marriage, defense of native populations, environmental protection and decriminalization of drugs, and the use of science as a criterion for informing public policies, among other “modern” agendas. These people, who feel disadvantaged or excluded in the world of “political correctness”, cling to traditional values that
give them security and hope of recovering a lost hegemony.

Sound familiar?

[Starlight]

"Dictator"?

He has gradually undermined democracy during his tenure in power to the point where he is now commonly considered a dictator.

Wiki:

Freedom House's Nations in Transit 2020 report reclassified Hungary from a democracy to a transitional or hybrid regime.^{[220][193][193]}

One expert puts it this way

Orban is know for forcing everyone who would oppose him out of the country by making sure they can't get a job anywhere in Hungary. He sends out long lists of names of people not to be hired. It is estimated that about 10% of the population of Hungary have been forced out of Hungary under Orban.

FWIU, the elections have all been aboveboard.

Hungary's 2022 election was described by observers as "neither free nor fair", with Orban's previous elections being described as "free but not fair". Orban has made hundreds of changes to electoral laws, which include things like limiting the opposition to 5 minutes of media time, using the media as a propaganda machine, gerrymandering all the electorates, and this year apparently burning the mail-in ballots for his opponents.

Given his pork barrel spending, patronage-like political style, eroding of judicial independence, family corruption, and even anti-Americanism one would think you and other leftists would be giddy with admiration.

Those are Republican values.

Also gives lip service to Christian values and does not support the LGBTQ insanity.

It's astonishing how easy US conservatives are to manipulate - Orban has seemingly never been inside a church but has found that he can make the religious zealots love him just by endorsing their religion in politics and agreeing to join them on whatever religious hate crusade they happen to be on at the moment. You guys are such suckers, so easily manipulated by these authoritarian conmen like Orban and Trump.

[CivilDiscourse]

He has gradually undermined democracy during his tenure in power to the point where he is now commonly considered a dictator.

Wiki:

Freedom House's Nations in Transit 2020 report reclassified Hungary from a democracy to a transitional or hybrid regime.^{[220][193][193]}

One expert puts it this way

Orban is know for forcing everyone who would oppose him out of the country by making sure they can't get a job anywhere in Hungary. He sends out long lists of names of people not to be hired. It is estimated that about 10% of the population of Hungary have been forced out of Hungary under Orban.

Hungary's 2022 election was described by observers as "neither free nor fair", with Orban's previous elections being described as "free but not fair". Orban has made hundreds of changes to electoral laws, which include things like limiting the opposition to 5 minutes of media time, using the media as a propaganda machine, gerrymandering all the electorates, and this year apparently burning the mail-in ballots for his opponents.

Those are Republican values.

It's astonishing how easy US conservatives are to manipulate - Orban has seemingly never been inside a church but has found that he can make the religious zealots love him just by endorsing their religion in politics and agreeing to join them on whatever religious hate crusade they happen to be on at the moment. You guys are such suckers, so easily manipulated by these authoritarian conmen like Orban and Trump.

Alot of that sounds like Venezuela...

[Starlight]

Alot of that sounds like Venezuela...

[Ronson]

Now, if it was Fidel, were he still alive....they'd be all over him.

Well, they have Trudeau.

[Ronson]

Alot of that sounds like Venezuela...

And here. Run afoul of the emperor (in deed or philosophy) and get audited by the IRS. Or raided by the FBI.

[Sparko]

Well, they have Trudeau.

Ouch.

[rogue06]

Alot of that sounds like Venezuela...

Canada the last two years.

[Mountain Man]

Orban spoke at CPAC.

It’s what you vote for but I wonder if it’s what you really want. Is there awareness among Christians of where you are headed?

We know that the US is headed to hell in a hand basket under our current political leadership.

[Mountain Man]

He has gradually undermined democracy during his tenure in power to the point where he is now commonly considered a dictator.

A good description of Joe Biden and his puppet masters.

[firstfloor]

We know that the US is headed to hell in a hand basket under our current political leadership.

So, you want to clean up this mess, however you define mess, but, does that mean that you are an Orbanist and long for strong authoritarian leadership, of the more permanent kind?