$40 Billion

[Ronson]

Zelensky openly admitted that they were telling him in secret his country wouldn't be let into NATO, while telling him not to admit this in public. So why do you say that?

How does that translate into the Pentagon coaching him what to do?

[Ronson]

What about it is theory exactly? Be specific.

The part where you say it's "obvious he's being used as a pawn." That is not obvious. Zelensky is doing everything that I would expect the leader of a country to do to defend his country. What do you think he should be doing if he was not a pawn? Surrender?

[Mountain Man]

The part where you say it's "obvious he's being used as a pawn." That is not obvious. Zelensky is doing everything that I would expect the leader of a country to do to defend his country. What do you think he should be doing if he was not a pawn? Surrender?

Negotiating peace is preferable to watching his country be flattened and the lives of his citizens destroyed.

The US did just about everything it could to instigate this conflict, and now we are telling Zelinsky that we'll provide the bullets as long as he's willing to sacrifice his own people for whatever end. If he keeps on this path, there is no good outcome for Ukraine.

[Ronson]

Negotiating peace is preferable to watching his country be flattened and the lives of his citizens destroyed.

The US did just about everything it could to instigate this conflict, and now we are telling Zelinsky that we'll provide the bullets as long as he's willing to sacrifice his own people for whatever end. If he keeps on this path, there is no good outcome for Ukraine.

That is a lot of conjecture. There is nothing going on that would make me suspect your theory. Zelensky appears to be nothing more than an inflexible leader (they've been known to happen). That would be the least complicated explanation of what we're seeing.

Zelensky wants to keep fighting because he has been assured of big $$$ coming in by way of armaments. These assurances are giving him confidence, and little reason to be flexible. And this is going to drag out this war - and the US involvement - indefinitely.

Which brings me back to the question: Why? Why carte blanche assistance by Biden? Is there the possibility of incriminating stuff in Kyiv file cabinets? Is there a threat of blackmail against the Bidens?

BTW, where are you hearing this stuff about the Pentagon running the show? What evidence are they offering?

[Gondwanaland]

What about it is theory exactly? Be specific.

Everything about it you flat earth loon.

[Gondwanaland]

A vague threat.

But OK, it applies to the former but not the latter. The U.S. is only obligated to take the matter to the Security Council and request action. I think this has been done.

Nothing vague about it.

[seanD]

The part where you say it's "obvious he's being used as a pawn." That is not obvious. Zelensky is doing everything that I would expect the leader of a country to do to defend his country. What do you think he should be doing if he was not a pawn? Surrender?

He should have sat down for concessions when the Biden admin was warning about an imminent invasion, instead of brushing it off and asking for billions of aid instead. But hindsight is 22. At this point, surrender is pretty inevitable, unless he wants to continue seeing his country decimated and his people continue suffering, and quite possibly risk a nuclear incident. I don't know his motives, but I'm not sure why he didn't see as clues the west was playing him when the Biden admin obstructed a weapons package to Ukraine before the invasion and that he admitted they told him privately he wouldn't join NATO.

[Ronson]

He should have sat down for concessions when the Biden admin was warning about an imminent invasion, instead of brushing it off and asking for billions of aid instead. But hindsight is 22. At this point, surrender is pretty inevitable, unless he wants to continue seeing his country decimated and his people continue suffering, and quite possibly risk a nuclear incident. I don't know his motives, but I'm not sure why he didn't see as clues the west was playing him when the Biden admin obstructed a weapons package to Ukraine before the invasion and that he admitted they told him privately he wouldn't join NATO.

I try to keep the backstory all of this in mind.

(a) Ukraine agreed to an open-ended lease to Russia to house its navy in Crimea, which had always been stationed there, going back to the Soviet Union.
(b) The Russia-friendly president of Ukraine was chased out of Kyiv (after the Obama administration began aggressively courting Kyiv).
(c) Russia takes Crimea, but it can only be accessed by a bridge from Russian territory. Not very stable or secure.
(d) Putin demands in writing that Crimea is part of Russia, but is rebuffed. Putin openly frets about Ukraine becoming part of NATO and how that will affect Crimea.
(e) Russia invades Ukraine. IMO, he wants a wide highway through east Ukraine to Crimea so it can be better defended.

It all hinges on Crimea; how it is recognized and in writing.

[Mountain Man]

That is a lot of conjecture. There is nothing going on that would make me suspect your theory. Zelensky appears to be nothing more than an inflexible leader (they've been known to happen). That would be the least complicated explanation of what we're seeing.

Zelensky wants to keep fighting because he has been assured of big $$$ coming in by way of armaments. These assurances are giving him confidence, and little reason to be flexible. And this is going to drag out this war - and the US involvement - indefinitely.

Which brings me back to the question: Why? Why carte blanche assistance by Biden? Is there the possibility of incriminating stuff in Kyiv file cabinets? Is there a threat of blackmail against the Bidens?

BTW, where are you hearing this stuff about the Pentagon running the show? What evidence are they offering?

I think you're on the right track with regards to why the Biden crime family and other interested parties are intent on keeping this war going.

And it's not the Pentagon pulling Zelinsky's strings, it's the State Department. They're the ones responsible for international diplomacy. If you listen carefully to the Pentagon, they want out. Latest word from top command is that the best we can hope for is a stalemate, at least until the US goes bankrupt, or Zelinsky runs out of Ukrainians to send to the slaughter.

[Starlight]

Skyrocketing inflation

It's the same worldwide regardless of the party in government in the different countries. It averaged 8.8% across OECD nations in the last year. Trying to blame that on Biden is just silly.

porous borders

You could make this complaint at any point in the last 50 years in the US. As discussed in another thread, Biden has been deporting illegal immigrants at twice the rate Trump did.

oil shortages

I must have missed this one? Googling it suggests some types of cooking oil are in short supply due to the Ukraine war. Do you mean that? Usually oil shortages refers to crude oil though.

greenies and globalists running the show.

I wish greenies were running the show. But last I looked, Biden's "Build Back Better" plan to spend money on renewables as well as infrastructure had been blocked and hadn't passed, and there was no serious interest in passing any sort of "Green New Deal" that Bernie and AOC would have liked. So, no, unfortunately no greenies running the show.

"Globalists" seems a meaningless word so I don't even know what you think you mean by that claim.

Yeah, we're doing just fine.

Unemployment at record lows and GDP at record highs suggests America is indeed doing just fine. I am also encouraged by the recent unionization efforts in Starbucks and Amazon branches, suggesting that workers in America might be taking back some power and mobilizing against the ultra-rich and mega-corps.

Oh, and $40 billion approved for a country that the Biden family has been shadily milking for their family fortune.

Your conspiracy theories aside, what I heard was that nearly all that 'aid' money was being spent within the US and only products bought with that money would be sent to Ukraine. So it's not as if they are literally sending bags of money to the Ukraine like the Bush regime was sending to the President of Afghanistan. Since what's being sent to Ukraine isn't money it then becomes harder for corrupt interests there to pocket it, and harder still for Biden's family or any other to try to gain commission from corrupt dealings. The Ukraine aid seems just another excuse to dish our federal government money to military industrial contractors scattered across every congressional district in the 50 US states and for congressmen to be able to tell their voters they had helped create jobs in their district - the fact that anything produced in this manner eventually gets sent to Afghanistan is probably irrelevant to most of the politicians voting for it.

[Ronson]

It's the same worldwide regardless of the party in government in the different countries. It averaged 8.8% across OECD nations in the last year. Trying to blame that on Biden is just silly.

You could make this complaint at any point in the last 50 years in the US. As discussed in another thread, Biden has been deporting illegal immigrants at twice the rate Trump did.

I must have missed this one? Googling it suggests some types of cooking oil are in short supply due to the Ukraine war. Do you mean that? Usually oil shortages refers to crude oil though.

Most of this has been covered in previous debates. Oil, simple supply and demand. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...de-oil-prices/

I wish greenies were running the show. But last I looked, Biden's "Build Back Better" plan to spend money on renewables as well as infrastructure had been blocked and hadn't passed, and there was no serious interest in passing any sort of "Green New Deal" that Bernie and AOC would have liked. So, no, unfortunately no greenies running the show.

https://www.worldoil.com/magazine/20...he-crosshairs/

"Globalists" seems a meaningless word so I don't even know what you think you mean by that claim.

A "globalist" is any person who considers the world his/her top priority ahead of their country. In many regards, it is irrelevant if the average citizen feels this way. But when American elected officials in charge of American tax dollars makes the world their top priority over their country, they are traitorous in both policy and finances. Biden is a globalist, which I assume is partly why he appeals to you.

Unemployment at record lows and GDP at record highs suggests America is indeed doing just fine. I am also encouraged by the recent unionization efforts in Starbucks and Amazon branches, suggesting that workers in America might be taking back some power and mobilizing against the ultra-rich and mega-corps.

I honestly don't know what is going on with employment. The numbers aren't making much sense. I assume they are bouncy due to coming off the lockdowns.

rate.jpgUNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS CLAIMS

Your conspiracy theories aside, what I heard was that nearly all that 'aid' money was being spent within the US and only products bought with that money would be sent to Ukraine. So it's not as if they are literally sending bags of money to the Ukraine like the Bush regime was sending to the President of Afghanistan. Since what's being sent to Ukraine isn't money it then becomes harder for corrupt interests there to pocket it, and harder still for Biden's family or any other to try to gain commission from corrupt dealings. The Ukraine aid seems just another excuse to dish our federal government money to military industrial contractors scattered across every congressional district in the 50 US states and for congressmen to be able to tell their voters they had helped create jobs in their district - the fact that anything produced in this manner eventually gets sent to Afghanistan is probably irrelevant to most of the politicians voting for it.

Assets equal money. If Zelensky wants armaments and Biden sends them, then the cash exchange becomes unnecessary. It still satisfies Zelensky - especially if he has information about the Biden family that Old Joe would like to keep under wraps. Which is actually the greater question here: Why is Ukraine so profoundly important, relative to other countries? I can picture a similar situation happening elsewhere and nobody giving a hoot about it.

[Roy]

The most cynical take is that the billions of dollars in aid being funneled to Ukraine is a massive money laundering scheme, and that prominent Democrats like Shifty Schiff, Nutsey Pelosi, and, of course the Biden crime family are in line to make millions. Thing is, this theory can't be entirely discounted.

Yes it can. You propagate nonsense so often that anything you write can be completely discounted.

[Ronson]

Here's something worth pondering. Suppose the Ukraine invasion never happened, and the world rewinds back to autumn of 2021.

News flash: Russia Invades Kazakhstan, Says It Is Removing Muslim Extremists From Its Border

How would the West respond? IMO, not much. Condemnations perhaps. If the "extremists" were in any way related to Iran, probably not even that much.

[seanD]

Most of this has been covered in previous debates. Oil, simple supply and demand. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...de-oil-prices/



https://www.worldoil.com/magazine/20...he-crosshairs/



A "globalist" is any person who considers the world his/her top priority ahead of their country. In many regards, it is irrelevant if the average citizen feels this way. But when American elected officials in charge of American tax dollars makes the world their top priority over their country, they are traitorous in both policy and finances. Biden is a globalist, which I assume is partly why he appeals to you.



I honestly don't know what is going on with employment. The numbers aren't making much sense. I assume they are bouncy due to coming off the lockdowns.

rate.jpgUNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS CLAIMS




Assets equal money. If Zelensky wants armaments and Biden sends them, then the cash exchange becomes unnecessary. It still satisfies Zelensky - especially if he has information about the Biden family that Old Joe would like to keep under wraps. Which is actually the greater question here: Why is Ukraine so profoundly important, relative to other countries? I can picture a similar situation happening elsewhere and nobody giving a hoot about it.

Apparently SL knows more about the state of the economy in America than Americans who actually live here do. That's just but one example showing why you can pretty much count on everything New Zealand boy states about economic matters in the US to be wrong. Though I'll say he is right that you can't only blame Biden for our current economic situation, but he's likely saying that for the wrong reasons.

[seanD]

Unemployment at record lows and GDP at record highs suggests America is indeed doing just fine.

Employment only recovered pre-pandemic losses, but the Participation Rate hasn't fully recovered so even the recovery number's not being accurately reported. GDP contracted in Q1-2022 and reached a two year low. You just spew out absolute nonsense because you apparently get these false facts from hearsay (unless you just make it up yourself), and it's especially egregious when you have dupes in here who fall for your posts that are full of gross inaccuracies.