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  • #46
    Rand Paul blocked the fast track vote despite pressure from Senate leaders:

    "My oath of office is to the US Constitution, not to any foreign nation, and no matter how sympathetic the cause, my oath of office is to the national security of the United States of America," Paul said in his remarks before objecting to moving to swift passage of the bill. “We cannot save Ukraine by dooming the US economy."

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...raine-funding/

    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Rand Paul blocked the fast track vote despite pressure from Senate leaders:

      "My oath of office is to the US Constitution, not to any foreign nation, and no matter how sympathetic the cause, my oath of office is to the national security of the United States of America," Paul said in his remarks before objecting to moving to swift passage of the bill. “We cannot save Ukraine by dooming the US economy."

      https://theconservativetreehouse.com...raine-funding/

      I'm also confident he has the backbone to take the inevitable smears of treason that are going to come his way.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Rand Paul blocked the fast track vote despite pressure from Senate leaders:

        "My oath of office is to the US Constitution, not to any foreign nation, and no matter how sympathetic the cause, my oath of office is to the national security of the United States of America," Paul said in his remarks before objecting to moving to swift passage of the bill. “We cannot save Ukraine by dooming the US economy."

        https://theconservativetreehouse.com...raine-funding/

        Thank you, Senator Paul.

        Comment


        • #49
          We need a President Rand Paul. He's essentially President Trump without the baggage
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            We need a President Rand Paul. He's essentially President Trump without the baggage
            I voted for him twice for POTUS, but he could never win.

            First, he has bad optics. He's not very tall, so he looks unimpressive on stage debating opponents. Secondly, he's not animated enough to overcome that. If he pounded his fist on the podium and shouted a bit, it would take him a lot further.

            But thirdly, and most importantly, his message is one of frugality. Most voters don't want to hear "Vote for me because the government can't keep giving away 'free stuff.' I'll put a stop to it."

            Comment


            • #51
              It's interesting that all the democrats in congress voted in lockstep in favor of the bill. 57 nays were all Republicans.

              Comment


              • #52
                Cori Bush openly admitting this as if she believes it's a bad thing...

                https://bush.house.gov/media/press-r...l-funding-vote

                “Additionally, at $40 billion, this is an extraordinary amount of military assistance, a large percentage of which will go directly to private defense contractors. In the last year alone, the United States will have provided Ukraine with more military aid than any country in the last two decades, and twice as much military assistance as the yearly cost of war in Afghanistan, even when American troops were on the ground. The sheer size of the package given an already inflated Pentagon budget should not go without critique. I remain concerned about the increased risks of direct war and the potential for direct military confrontation.
                If you believe it's a bad thing, then why did you and all the democrats vote for it?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                  Don't blame Zelinsky. He may be corrupt, but I truly believe he's a puppet in all of this. It's our own State Department that is managing the war. I suspect if Zelinsky had his way, he would have negotiated peace months ago, but the State Department won't let him.
                  Our state department couldn't manage this if we wanted them to. Truth is, Biden is a non-entity in this and we're more reacting than leading.

                  Scaring the beejeebers out of a few hundred million people tends to make foreign policy more the pulled than the puller.
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                    Thank you, Senator Paul.
                    I wouldn't get too excited. Paul made a reasonable point about oversight - and the Dems are being morons objecting to it. But that's only a few days of handwringing. It's very unlikely the bill won't ultimately pass.
                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by seanD View Post

                      I'm also confident he has the backbone to take the inevitable smears of treason that are going to come his way.
                      Yeah, um, here's the thing - there are conservatives smearing Dan Crenshaw for his support of Ukraine. There really isn't any high ground if you're gonna throw mud just like Democrats.

                      What really amazes me is that no one seems to notice that this benefits the US economically long term - a LOT. All that stuff the former Warsaw pact is throwing at Ukraine has to be replaced. They weren't buying Russian junk all these years because they wanted to, but because they couldn't afford the change over (think shifting from PC to Apple in the 1990's only on steroids). Now they get shiny new systems that will need shiny new infrastructure, training, replacement parts, more training, updates, - et cetera. We're going to make out like bandits for decades to come and do it by providing the value those nations wanted to begin with!

                      Then comes the rebuilding in Ukraine and all the lovely consulting and contracting that comes with it. Oh, and the industrial upgrades and the lovely oil revenue that takes lots and lots of expertise to access. And then the military upgrades as Ukraine joins NATO - the words 'cash cow' come to mind.

                      And no, I'm not ignoring the upfront costs - but we're mostly sending older stock we'd have to replace anyway to Ukraine directly and the newer stuff going to NATO allies is not our brightest shinies (we sell those much later in their lifespan). But ultimately, we only lose money in this if Russia actually wins - and I mean by taking Ukraine. Otherwise, we're looking good for the next three to five decades of defense sales.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Quill Sword

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post

                        Yeah, um, here's the thing - there are conservatives smearing Dan Crenshaw for his support of Ukraine.
                        Are these "smears" accurate claims that he supports Ukraine, or is there actual dishonesty at hand?

                        Incidentally, Madison Cawthorn just learned that attacking Ukraine is not a winning strategy among average Republican voters.
                        Last edited by KingsGambit; 05-18-2022, 10:08 PM.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

                          Are these "smears" accurate claims that he supports Ukraine, or is there actual dishonesty at hand?

                          Incidentally, Madison Cawthorn just learned that attacking Ukraine is not a winning strategy among average Republican voters.
                          I don't buy it, unless you can show me a poll backing up that statement. Populist conservatives have split with warmongering neoconservatives like Crenshaw, the former being a large base that made Trump's anti-interventionism foreign policy so attractive to them. I don't know too much about Cawthorn, but I'm guessing he probably had faults that had nothing to do with his views on Ukraine.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by seanD View Post

                            I don't buy it, unless you can show me a poll backing up that statement. Populist conservatives have split with warmongering neoconservatives like Crenshaw, the former being a large base that made Trump's anti-interventionism foreign policy so attractive to them. I don't know too much about Cawthorn, but I'm guessing he probably had faults that had nothing to do with his views on Ukraine.
                            If you yourself admit you know nothing about him, then I can dismiss your skepticism without thought as well.

                            I don't have a poll, only the actual election results from yesterday. He's in my state so I've been closely following it as local news. He was a close Trump ally with plenty of media attention. He did have a number of scandals, including trying to bring a loaded gun to the airport, multiple sexual harassment accusations, claiming that other Republican Congressmen invited him to coke-fueled orgies, and calling Zelenskyy a thug. His popularity didn't really start to go downhill until the Zelenskyy thing (the orgy accusations aren't going to hurt him given that his whole thing is anti-establishment, especially other Republicans, and the gun thing isn't going to hurt him much in his particular district either), and the sexual harassment stuff was well known when he was running and didn't hurt him there.

                            Sitting Congressmen very rarely get primaried. Very rarely. And I'm curious how much of Crenshaw's detractors are actually in his district as opposed to being online activists. Cawthorn's actual constituents said no to him.
                            Last edited by KingsGambit; 05-18-2022, 10:31 PM.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post

                              Yeah, um, here's the thing - there are conservatives smearing Dan Crenshaw for his support of Ukraine. There really isn't any high ground if you're gonna throw mud just like Democrats.
                              I was actually referring to the Dems, being that they've become the most rapid war party of late, and most insane government spenders in spite of our current circumstances. And Crenshaw is about as warmongering neoconservative as they get, so he's been a target of populists for awhile.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

                                If you yourself admit you know nothing about him, then I can dismiss your skepticism without thought as well.

                                I don't have a poll, only the actual election results from yesterday. He's in my state so I've been closely following it as local news. He was a close Trump ally with plenty of media attention. He did have a number of scandals, including trying to bring a loaded gun to the airport, multiple sexual harassment accusations, claiming that other Republican Congressmen invited him to coke-fueled orgies, and calling Zelenskyy a thug. His popularity didn't really start to go downhill until the Zelenskyy thing (the orgy accusations aren't going to hurt him given that his whole thing is anti-establishment, especially other Republicans, and the gun thing isn't going to hurt him much in his particular district either), and the sexual harassment stuff was well known when he was running and didn't hurt him there.

                                Sitting Congressmen very rarely get primaried. Very rarely. And I'm curious how much of Crenshaw's detractors are actually in his district as opposed to being online activists. Cawthorn's actual constituents said no to him.
                                You can dismiss it all you want. I asked for proof because I just don't really trust most of what you say is accurate. I consider your info probably slightly above Starlight when it comes to reliability.

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