Should this worry Australia and New Zealand?

[Starlight]

To be fair, it looks closer than that on a Mercator projection.

Hmm, okay, well, for the geographically challenged. Here are some places closer to China than New Zealand is:
All of Europe.
Nearly all of Africa.
The rest of Asia.
Hawaii.
Alaska.

When China has conquered that list, then I'll worry we might be next.

[Ronson]

Xi wants Taiwan (very badly), and Tibet (why, I don't know) and a couple other minor enclaves. And it wants control over the Pacific trade routes, by making artificial islands and such, and becoming the world's foremost economy.

That's about it. It hasn't made any noises about attacking Pacific countries. Not even a hint. That's not China's game.

[Starlight]

...and becoming the world's foremost economy.

I can understand Americans fearmongering among themselves over the gradual failure of American empire. But for those of us in countries that already trade more with China than we do with America, it's hard to see why we would care about America slipping into #2 in the world economy rankings.

Our experience here of trying to do trade agreements with the US, is that big US companies corruptly get the US politicians to write things into the agreements that are helpful for them and unhelpful to our country, so people here quite reasonably object to that. China for all their many faults doesn't seem to have the same interest in trying to actively force their corruption onto us as the US does. Maybe de-corrupt your country's politics and you would find other countries more interested in doing business with you?

[tabibito]

Hmm, okay, well, for the geographically challenged. Here are some places closer to China than New Zealand is:
All of Europe.
Nearly all of Africa.
The rest of Asia.
Hawaii.
Alaska.

When China has conquered that list, then I'll worry we might be next.

Somewhat overly optimistic, I think. But the time to worry would come if as and when China moves against Taiwan.

[Starlight]

Somewhat overly optimistic, I think. But the time to worry would come if as and when China moves against Taiwan.

I tend to be a bit agnostic on the subject of Taiwan. Wanting to reunite with an area that has the same people-group, speaks the same language, and was historically part of your country, is a very different thing IMO than invading random unrelated countries.

I would generally, everything else being equal, say that areas that want to self-govern should be able to do so. But I don't think that's such an important thing that it should spark a major war to achieve. e.g. the US isn't invading Spain at the moment just because Spain's not letting Catalan self-govern despite its wishes to. In the same way, I tend to think that the US and the West in general should probably keep their noses out of the China-Taiwan situation. In reality that's not going to happen as long as Taiwan keeps being a major supplier of advanced computing components to the US. But the upshot is that the US's zealous defense of Taiwan is selfishly motivated and trade related and not some sort of deep moral issue.

Anyway, because the motives of China in invading Taiwan - wanting to reunite with an area that has the same people-group, speaks the same language, and was historically part of their country, are so so different to any motives that might lead them to invade Australia or NZ, an invasion of Taiwan doesn't concern me in terms of what it indicates about Chinese aggression. A Chinese invasion of Taiwan would only concern me with regard to the US response to it and whether the US escalates it into WW3. So it's not China I'm concerned about with regard to Taiwan, it's the US.

[CivilDiscourse]

I'm sure star is eagerly looking forward to kowtowing to his fellow travelers

Honestly, New Zealand is one of the most isolated and insignificant countries on earth. It's main claim to fame is Landscape Porn and Hollywood. It's got very few people, and no real worth. Its strategically unimportant. I think China's view of New Zealand is about the equivalent of how Walmart specifically thinks about the smith household at 221 E 21st Street Townsville, State 12345. (In other words. New Zealand probably thinks alot more about it's supply place, than it's supply place really thinks about it.)

In Fact, New Zealand is probably more concerned about the rest of the world, than the rest of the world thinks of new zealand. The only reason we care is because we have someone anti-american and way too invested in our politics than is healthy for them who is active on this board.

[Ronson]

I can understand Americans fearmongering among themselves over the gradual failure of American empire. But for those of us in countries that already trade more with China than we do with America, it's hard to see why we would care about America slipping into #2 in the world economy rankings.

Our experience here of trying to do trade agreements with the US, is that big US companies corruptly get the US politicians to write things into the agreements that are helpful for them and unhelpful to our country, so people here quite reasonably object to that. China for all their many faults doesn't seem to have the same interest in trying to actively force their corruption onto us as the US does. Maybe de-corrupt your country's politics and you would find other countries more interested in doing business with you?

The US having the largest economy in the world doesn't matter to me. There are more important issues needing resolution.

[rogue06]

Xi wants Taiwan (very badly), and Tibet (why, I don't know) and a couple other minor enclaves. And it wants control over the Pacific trade routes, by making artificial islands and such, and becoming the world's foremost economy.

That's about it. It hasn't made any noises about attacking Pacific countries. Not even a hint. That's not China's game.

Tibet for rare earths and minerals (they now control over 90% of the world's sources for them) as well as controlling the headwaters of nearly every major river in south Asia.

They are building islands. Yes you read that right. So they can expand their territorial waters and ultimately control major shipping lanes.

[tabibito]

Tibet for rare earths and minerals (they now control over 90% of the world's sources for them) as well as controlling the headwaters of nearly every major river in south Asia.

They are building islands. Yes you read that right. So they can expand their territorial waters and ultimately control major shipping lanes.

Yes. China is most definitely following an expansionist agenda. There may be some doubt about what they are willing to do to achieve it, but the agenda is certainly in place.

[rogue06]

Yes. China is most definitely following an expansionist agenda. There may be some doubt about what they are willing to do to achieve it, but the agenda is certainly in place.

Even so, I doubt that an invasion of Kiwiville is in the cards.

[tabibito]

Even so, I doubt that an invasion of Kiwiville is in the cards.

If, as has been posited, China would be likely to recapitulate ancient practices, they are more likely to try for vassal states rather than outright occupation and control. Activities in foreign countries to date seem to reflect that intention.

[Mountain Man]

I tend to be a bit agnostic on the subject of Taiwan. Wanting to reunite with an area that has the same people-group, speaks the same language, and was historically part of your country, is a very different thing IMO than invading random unrelated countries.

Like Putin invading Ukraine?

[Thoughtful Monk]

If, as has been posited, China would be likely to recapitulate ancient practices, they are more likely to try for vassal states rather than outright occupation and control. Activities in foreign countries to date seem to reflect that intention.

I'll admit I hadn't thought of that possibility. I when I consider what they are doing, it does make sense that is their plan.

[CivilDiscourse]

If, as has been posited, China would be likely to recapitulate ancient practices, they are more likely to try for vassal states rather than outright occupation and control. Activities in foreign countries to date seem to reflect that intention.

Instead of vassal states, china is looking more for the more modern equivalent. Puppet States.

[Sparko]

I see it as global chess. They are just positioning their pieces on the board right now. Who knows why? Could be they and Russia are in cahoots to start world war 3 and want to make sure all their pieces are in place before going on all out attack. Or maybe for some other reason. But regardless, controlling the Pacific trade routes is a very important strategic goal. At the least it helps cut off Australia and New Zealand and maybe the USA if they decide to invade Taiwan.