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What is the issue over paid maternity leave?

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  • What is the issue over paid maternity leave?

    This op-ed piece appeared in the Guardian on Monday [27th December]. Ms Dempsey refers back to her experiences in the 1990s but her piece addresses Mr Manchin's current attitude towards the Build Back Better plan.

    Is paid maternity leave not considered to be essential for mothers and their new-borns in the USA? If not, why not?

    Given that the article also notes the US has the dubious honour of having one of the highest maternal mortality rates among developed countries, I would have thought many people would wish to see that situation redressed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...d-family-leave

    Twenty-four hours after I gave birth to my second child, my employer called to ask when I planned to return to work.

    It had been a high-risk pregnancy and a complicated, precarious delivery involving a breech birth. I should have remained in the hospital for several days. But my oldest child – then just a year old – needed major surgery that couldn’t be delayed. So we brought our newborn home and rushed to prepare to leave for a hospital two hours away where our oldest child would have surgery while our newborn was at home being cared for by relatives.

    As we gathered our things, the phone rang. It was someone from the HR office at the paper bag factory where I worked. After briefly making the obligatory inquiry as to how my new baby was doing, the HR rep got to the real reason for her call.

    “So, we know you were planning to take a few weeks off, but I just wanted to make sure you knew that you can come back anytime now. I could even get you back on the schedule this weekend, if you wanted.” After a brief pause, she added, “I figured, you know, you might want to start getting paid again.”

    I got the message loud and clear.

    My employer provided no paid maternity leave, so the longer I was off from work, the longer I would go without income. With two young children to support and medical bills piling up, this was money I desperately needed. By dangling a paycheck in front of me, the HR rep knew she was making it very tempting for me to return to work sooner than I had planned – and way sooner than I should.

    That was in the early 1990s, in a rural area in the coal region of Pennsylvania, where I live. I doubt much has changed since then.

    That was in the early 1990s, in a rural area in the coal region of Pennsylvania, where I live. I doubt much has changed since then.

    The version of the Build Back Better plan passed by the House on 19 November includes a provision for paid family leave. While it would mandate only four weeks of paid time off – much less than the 12 weeks in the original plan – it is being heralded as a big victory, which is depressing. Even worse: there’s a good chance that even that minimal amount of paid family leave won’t survive in the final version of the bill.

    At least, not if Joe Manchin has his way. The West Virginia senator has voiced his opposition to any paid family leave in the bill, and the Democrats need his critical vote to pass the package in the Senate.

    It’s incomprehensible that one individual could single-handedly decide the fate of something that affects so many American families. Manchin has never had to endure the physical and mental agony of returning to work before you’ve recovered from childbirth. His family is wealthy and has likely benefited from the support of nannies, assistants and paid daycare. I’m guessing he has never known the panic of worrying you might lose your job – or not have enough in your paycheck to pay essential bills – because you need to miss work to care for a sick child or handle a family emergency.

    It’s stunning that one man who has never needed paid leave has the ability to keep it from millions of parents who do. Manchin seems to be enjoying the power trip, relishing the attention his cat-and-mouse game has attracted. But for many people – particularly postpartum mothers – this is no game. The ability to take even just a few precious weeks at home without fear of financial losses could literally be a matter of life and death.

    Like many industrial employers (at least at that time), the factory where I worked used a point system to track and regulate employee absences. When you took a day off – unpaid, of course – it didn’t matter if you were sick, taking a vacation, or attending to a sick relative or family emergency. It was all treated the same way. You were given a point for each absence. After five points, you were given a warning. At six points, a one-day suspension without pay. If you reached seven points, you were fired. I received a point after absences for each of my appointments for prenatal care, and another for the time I missed while having the baby.

    It’s inexcusable that American companies are allowed to operate like this. Among the handful of countries without any form of national paid leave, the United States is by far the largest and richest.

    Forcing people to choose between their paycheck and their families or their own physical health is heartless. In the case of someone who has just given birth, it is particularly cruel – and dangerous. I suffered serious (and potentially life-threatening) complications during and after each of my pregnancies. I am far from unusual. The US has one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the world among developed countries – and the risk is especially high for black and Native American women and women in poor rural areas. Workers in these communities are also more likely to receive little or no paid leave from their employers.

    Only roughly one in five workers in the US has access to paid family leave. The rest are forced to make impossible and risky choices. One in four new mothers returns to work within two weeks of giving birth. I know firsthand that is not nearly long enough to recover.

    Even looking at it purely from an economic and labor standpoint, a national paid leave policy makes sense. Paid leave actually keeps people in their jobs in the long run. When parents don’t have even the bare minimum of paid leave available for emergencies, they may be forced to quit their job – or end up getting fired.

    While paid family leave could make a big difference to new parents, they aren’t the only ones who benefit. Paid leave can also be extremely beneficial to people in the “sandwich generation” situation – which is exactly where I am now. About 44 million Americans provide care to parents or other adult relatives or friends, representing 37bn hours of unpaid labor each year.

    Providing a basic minimum of paid family leave to all Americans shouldn’t be controversial – and definitely shouldn’t seem like such an impossible goal.
    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

  • #2
    Another debate by proxy thread.

    State your own opinion, don't hide behind someone else's.

    Comment


    • #3
      There's nothing in the United States that would prevent an employer from offering paid maternity leave. If this is important to a woman, then she is free to seek an employer who offers it.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #4
        "That was in the early 1990s, in a rural area in the coal region of Pennsylvania, where I live. I doubt much has changed since then."

        So, basically just a political marketing piece for the BBB Plan, written by a shill, and using an example from a single factory 30 years ago.

        Most companies offer medical insurance paid for mostly by the company to their full time employees, give them paid time off for personal time and illness, and paid maternity leave. I have not worked at a single company that has not done so, and I have been in the work force for 40+ years and I have worked at a factory too.

        The government also provides the Family and Medical Leave act which provides that for medical emergencies companies have to let you take up to 3 months of leave without losing your job. The act doesn't cover pay but again, every company I know of will pay for at least part of it - exceptions being places that hire part time workers like fast food restaurants.

        As an example, the firm I work for now starts you out with a 2 weeks of PTO (Personal Time Off - used for vacation or illness) and it goes up to 5 weeks of PTO. In addition to that, they have a short term disability bank where you can save up unused days up to 17 to be used in case you are off work past your PTO time because of illness, until the provided disability kicks in (10 days to kick in), which pays 60% of your salary up to 3 months (the length of FMLA leave). During that time your short term disability bank can also cover the extra 40%)

        If for some reason you are out permanently, Long term disability (also provided by the company) will take over and pay you 60% of your salary until reaching social security age.

        The Maternity Leave (for both parents and includes adoptions) is for up to 12 weeks, first 8 weeks is paid at 100% and unpaid for the last 4, unless they want to use the short term disability bank mentioned above. If they require more time they can also apply for the FMLA time mentioned above and then go on the 60% short term disability insurance.

        I have used the FMLA leave twice in the last 6 years because of medical issues and was out 2 months each time.

        Comment


        • #5
          As for infant mortality rates in the US compared to other countries, you need to make sure you're comparing the same data. In the US, any child who dies after birth is considered an infant mortality, even if the child is born prematurely, while countries with government run healthcare, like European nations and Cuba, the statistic traditionally only takes into consideration full term births.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            As for infant mortality rates in the US compared to other countries, you need to make sure you're comparing the same data. In the US, any child who dies after birth is considered an infant mortality, even if the child is born prematurely, while countries with government run healthcare, like European nations and Cuba, the statistic traditionally only takes into consideration full term births.
            Wow, really? Even though a premature birth is more likely to die than a full term infant? That's really "cooking the books"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              There's nothing in the United States that would prevent an employer from offering paid maternity leave. If this is important to a woman, then she is free to seek an employer who offers it.
              Virtually everyone aside from small mom and pop run businesses already offers paid maternity leave and many offer paid paternity leave as well as we saw with Pete Buttigieg when he and his "husband" adopted.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                As for infant mortality rates in the US compared to other countries, you need to make sure you're comparing the same data. In the US, any child who dies after birth is considered an infant mortality, even if the child is born prematurely, while countries with government run healthcare, like European nations and Cuba, the statistic traditionally only takes into consideration full term births.
                Yup. Pointed that out many times. If you don't included babies who die shortly after birth in your statistics your numbers will obviously look much better.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                  This op-ed piece appeared in the Guardian on Monday [27th December]. Ms Dempsey refers back to her experiences in the 1990s but her piece addresses Mr Manchin's current attitude towards the Build Back Better plan.

                  Is paid maternity leave not considered to be essential for mothers and their new-borns in the USA? If not, why not?

                  Given that the article also notes the US has the dubious honour of having one of the highest maternal mortality rates among developed countries, I would have thought many people would wish to see that situation redressed.

                  https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...d-family-leave

                  Twenty-four hours after I gave birth to my second child, my employer called to ask when I planned to return to work.

                  It had been a high-risk pregnancy and a complicated, precarious delivery involving a breech birth. I should have remained in the hospital for several days. But my oldest child – then just a year old – needed major surgery that couldn’t be delayed. So we brought our newborn home and rushed to prepare to leave for a hospital two hours away where our oldest child would have surgery while our newborn was at home being cared for by relatives.

                  As we gathered our things, the phone rang. It was someone from the HR office at the paper bag factory where I worked. After briefly making the obligatory inquiry as to how my new baby was doing, the HR rep got to the real reason for her call.

                  “So, we know you were planning to take a few weeks off, but I just wanted to make sure you knew that you can come back anytime now. I could even get you back on the schedule this weekend, if you wanted.” After a brief pause, she added, “I figured, you know, you might want to start getting paid again.”

                  I got the message loud and clear.

                  My employer provided no paid maternity leave, so the longer I was off from work, the longer I would go without income. With two young children to support and medical bills piling up, this was money I desperately needed. By dangling a paycheck in front of me, the HR rep knew she was making it very tempting for me to return to work sooner than I had planned – and way sooner than I should.

                  That was in the early 1990s, in a rural area in the coal region of Pennsylvania, where I live. I doubt much has changed since then.

                  That was in the early 1990s, in a rural area in the coal region of Pennsylvania, where I live. I doubt much has changed since then.

                  The version of the Build Back Better plan passed by the House on 19 November includes a provision for paid family leave. While it would mandate only four weeks of paid time off – much less than the 12 weeks in the original plan – it is being heralded as a big victory, which is depressing. Even worse: there’s a good chance that even that minimal amount of paid family leave won’t survive in the final version of the bill.

                  At least, not if Joe Manchin has his way. The West Virginia senator has voiced his opposition to any paid family leave in the bill, and the Democrats need his critical vote to pass the package in the Senate.

                  It’s incomprehensible that one individual could single-handedly decide the fate of something that affects so many American families. Manchin has never had to endure the physical and mental agony of returning to work before you’ve recovered from childbirth. His family is wealthy and has likely benefited from the support of nannies, assistants and paid daycare. I’m guessing he has never known the panic of worrying you might lose your job – or not have enough in your paycheck to pay essential bills – because you need to miss work to care for a sick child or handle a family emergency.

                  It’s stunning that one man who has never needed paid leave has the ability to keep it from millions of parents who do. Manchin seems to be enjoying the power trip, relishing the attention his cat-and-mouse game has attracted. But for many people – particularly postpartum mothers – this is no game. The ability to take even just a few precious weeks at home without fear of financial losses could literally be a matter of life and death.

                  Like many industrial employers (at least at that time), the factory where I worked used a point system to track and regulate employee absences. When you took a day off – unpaid, of course – it didn’t matter if you were sick, taking a vacation, or attending to a sick relative or family emergency. It was all treated the same way. You were given a point for each absence. After five points, you were given a warning. At six points, a one-day suspension without pay. If you reached seven points, you were fired. I received a point after absences for each of my appointments for prenatal care, and another for the time I missed while having the baby.

                  It’s inexcusable that American companies are allowed to operate like this. Among the handful of countries without any form of national paid leave, the United States is by far the largest and richest.

                  Forcing people to choose between their paycheck and their families or their own physical health is heartless. In the case of someone who has just given birth, it is particularly cruel – and dangerous. I suffered serious (and potentially life-threatening) complications during and after each of my pregnancies. I am far from unusual. The US has one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the world among developed countries – and the risk is especially high for black and Native American women and women in poor rural areas. Workers in these communities are also more likely to receive little or no paid leave from their employers.

                  Only roughly one in five workers in the US has access to paid family leave. The rest are forced to make impossible and risky choices. One in four new mothers returns to work within two weeks of giving birth. I know firsthand that is not nearly long enough to recover.

                  Even looking at it purely from an economic and labor standpoint, a national paid leave policy makes sense. Paid leave actually keeps people in their jobs in the long run. When parents don’t have even the bare minimum of paid leave available for emergencies, they may be forced to quit their job – or end up getting fired.

                  While paid family leave could make a big difference to new parents, they aren’t the only ones who benefit. Paid leave can also be extremely beneficial to people in the “sandwich generation” situation – which is exactly where I am now. About 44 million Americans provide care to parents or other adult relatives or friends, representing 37bn hours of unpaid labor each year.

                  Providing a basic minimum of paid family leave to all Americans shouldn’t be controversial – and definitely shouldn’t seem like such an impossible goal.
                  So what's your view? You obviously have one or else you wouldn't start a thread on the subject.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    There's nothing in the United States that would prevent an employer from offering paid maternity leave. If this is important to a woman, then she is free to seek an employer who offers it.
                    Part of the free negotiation between an individual and a prospective boss.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      There's nothing in the United States that would prevent an employer from offering paid maternity leave. If this is important to a woman, then she is free to seek an employer who offers it.
                      Indeed, especially as of late many employers are offering paid maternity and paternity leave to attract more people and compete with other employers.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        So what's your view? You obviously have one or else you wouldn't start a thread on the subject.
                        Sometimes I start a thread without a definite opinion just to get the reaction. And the whole "how can I know what I think til I hear myself say it" thing.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                          Part of the free negotiation between an individual and a prospective boss.
                          Yup. That is what lets companies compete for employees. Offering different levels of benefits to entice someone to work for them.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            This op-ed piece appeared in the Guardian on Monday [27th December]. Ms Dempsey refers back to her experiences in the 1990s but her piece addresses Mr Manchin's current attitude towards the Build Back Better plan.

                            Is paid maternity leave not considered to be essential for mothers and their new-borns in the USA? If not, why not?

                            Given that the article also notes the US has the dubious honour of having one of the highest maternal mortality rates among developed countries, I would have thought many people would wish to see that situation redressed.

                            https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...d-family-leave

                            Twenty-four hours after I gave birth to my second child, my employer called to ask when I planned to return to work.

                            It had been a high-risk pregnancy and a complicated, precarious delivery involving a breech birth. I should have remained in the hospital for several days. But my oldest child – then just a year old – needed major surgery that couldn’t be delayed. So we brought our newborn home and rushed to prepare to leave for a hospital two hours away where our oldest child would have surgery while our newborn was at home being cared for by relatives.

                            As we gathered our things, the phone rang. It was someone from the HR office at the paper bag factory where I worked. After briefly making the obligatory inquiry as to how my new baby was doing, the HR rep got to the real reason for her call.

                            “So, we know you were planning to take a few weeks off, but I just wanted to make sure you knew that you can come back anytime now. I could even get you back on the schedule this weekend, if you wanted.” After a brief pause, she added, “I figured, you know, you might want to start getting paid again.”

                            I got the message loud and clear.

                            My employer provided no paid maternity leave, so the longer I was off from work, the longer I would go without income. With two young children to support and medical bills piling up, this was money I desperately needed. By dangling a paycheck in front of me, the HR rep knew she was making it very tempting for me to return to work sooner than I had planned – and way sooner than I should.

                            That was in the early 1990s, in a rural area in the coal region of Pennsylvania, where I live. I doubt much has changed since then.

                            That was in the early 1990s, in a rural area in the coal region of Pennsylvania, where I live. I doubt much has changed since then.

                            The version of the Build Back Better plan passed by the House on 19 November includes a provision for paid family leave. While it would mandate only four weeks of paid time off – much less than the 12 weeks in the original plan – it is being heralded as a big victory, which is depressing. Even worse: there’s a good chance that even that minimal amount of paid family leave won’t survive in the final version of the bill.

                            At least, not if Joe Manchin has his way. The West Virginia senator has voiced his opposition to any paid family leave in the bill, and the Democrats need his critical vote to pass the package in the Senate.

                            It’s incomprehensible that one individual could single-handedly decide the fate of something that affects so many American families. Manchin has never had to endure the physical and mental agony of returning to work before you’ve recovered from childbirth. His family is wealthy and has likely benefited from the support of nannies, assistants and paid daycare. I’m guessing he has never known the panic of worrying you might lose your job – or not have enough in your paycheck to pay essential bills – because you need to miss work to care for a sick child or handle a family emergency.

                            It’s stunning that one man who has never needed paid leave has the ability to keep it from millions of parents who do. Manchin seems to be enjoying the power trip, relishing the attention his cat-and-mouse game has attracted. But for many people – particularly postpartum mothers – this is no game. The ability to take even just a few precious weeks at home without fear of financial losses could literally be a matter of life and death.

                            Like many industrial employers (at least at that time), the factory where I worked used a point system to track and regulate employee absences. When you took a day off – unpaid, of course – it didn’t matter if you were sick, taking a vacation, or attending to a sick relative or family emergency. It was all treated the same way. You were given a point for each absence. After five points, you were given a warning. At six points, a one-day suspension without pay. If you reached seven points, you were fired. I received a point after absences for each of my appointments for prenatal care, and another for the time I missed while having the baby.

                            It’s inexcusable that American companies are allowed to operate like this. Among the handful of countries without any form of national paid leave, the United States is by far the largest and richest.

                            Forcing people to choose between their paycheck and their families or their own physical health is heartless. In the case of someone who has just given birth, it is particularly cruel – and dangerous. I suffered serious (and potentially life-threatening) complications during and after each of my pregnancies. I am far from unusual. The US has one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the world among developed countries – and the risk is especially high for black and Native American women and women in poor rural areas. Workers in these communities are also more likely to receive little or no paid leave from their employers.

                            Only roughly one in five workers in the US has access to paid family leave. The rest are forced to make impossible and risky choices. One in four new mothers returns to work within two weeks of giving birth. I know firsthand that is not nearly long enough to recover.

                            Even looking at it purely from an economic and labor standpoint, a national paid leave policy makes sense. Paid leave actually keeps people in their jobs in the long run. When parents don’t have even the bare minimum of paid leave available for emergencies, they may be forced to quit their job – or end up getting fired.

                            While paid family leave could make a big difference to new parents, they aren’t the only ones who benefit. Paid leave can also be extremely beneficial to people in the “sandwich generation” situation – which is exactly where I am now. About 44 million Americans provide care to parents or other adult relatives or friends, representing 37bn hours of unpaid labor each year.

                            Providing a basic minimum of paid family leave to all Americans shouldn’t be controversial – and definitely shouldn’t seem like such an impossible goal.
                            Looks like another argument by proxy thread to hide behind the article.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                              Yup. That is what lets companies compete for employees. Offering different levels of benefits to entice someone to work for them.
                              Many places are not offering pretty significant "sign on" bonuses now.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment

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