Robber Baron? Or capitalism in action?

[CivilDiscourse]

Are such things as pollution and workers' rights minor or tangential to the economy? If these things have to be addressed [and money has to be spent to do so] that in turn affects the economy. Indeed the former may spawn an entire economy of its own.

Unfortunately, yes they are. You can't expect Capitalism to reign in pollution. Though you can't expect Socialism or Communism to do so either, as all 3 are primarily ways of managing an economy.

So you rein in capitalism?

Rein in? Not the right phrase to me. You have to have regulations in place to manage those things that companies touch that are not actually related to the buying/selling of goods.

[rogue06]

No Bezos is a true liberal. Liberals preach equality, but in fact they have different rules for the elite than the masses.

Yup he spent a lot of money fighting against voter ID but then insists on it when his employees want to vote on unionizing.

[Mountain Man]

No Bezos is a true liberal. Liberals preach equality, but in fact they have different rules for the elite than the masses.

You're talking to someone who in another thread expressed surprise when I pointed out to her that liberals live by double standards.

[Mountain Man]

Certainly there are those who call themselves liberals but whose actions are the opposite, so perchance they are not really "true " liberals - rather like some of those who call themselves Christians are not actually "true" Christians.

And no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Unfortunately, yes they are. You can't expect Capitalism to reign in pollution.

Sorry your homophone error gave me a mental impression of the human embodiment of capitalism enthroned in a sea of dead animals, plastic, oil spillage, and excrement.

I would disagree on capitalism's responsibility for pollution. If industries pollute it is incumbent upon those industries to clean up their mess.

Furthermore continuous exploitation of finite resources will, eventually, result in the demise of the capitalist enterprise exploiting such resources.

Though you can't expect Socialism or Communism to do so either, as all 3 are primarily ways of managing an economy.

I think the recent events in Scotland have demonstrated that there is no real incentive for any economy to seriously address pollution and climate change. Also, there is the simple fact that what we have done so far cannot be stopped, even if everything was switched off tonight.

We have to recognise that we cannot continue with our consumer driven economies without endangering life on the planet that includes huge swathes of its human populations. The planet itself will continue and life will go on. However, human life as we have come to know it, may not continue.

Furthermore there is an ethical dimension to the conscious and deliberate destruction of other eco-systems and organisms purely for human gratification.

Rein in? Not the right phrase to me. You have to have regulations in place to manage those things that companies touch that are not actually related to the buying/selling of goods.

Surely that is reigning it in? The establishment of regulations must [inevitably] curb capitalism's "natural" proclivities.

[Gondwanaland]

No

If you have a cellphone, I call bull. Do you look into every product and ensure it contains no components made in china?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

No, it's a feature of human nature that exists in every economic system.

Not in every economic system utilised by human beings.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Are you claiming that you own no electronic devices, and none of your clothes or shoes come from China? And you might want to check where your appliances, furniture, and even cleaning products come from. Maybe even the mask the government periodically demands you wear.

Keep up at the back there.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You always have a choice.

To work or go hungry and/or lose one's home is hardly a choice.

Yeah, that kind of makes the point doesn't it? Workers are not slaves and can take corrective action when needed.

And have you read how capitalism tried to prevent workers from getting rights?

No Bezos is a true liberal. Liberals preach equality, but in fact they have different rules for the elite than the masses.

Then we must assume that the likes of Bakker, Long, Swaggart, Cardinal Law, and Savage are true Christians. Don't do as we do. Do as we say.

[CivilDiscourse]

<Snipped >
I would disagree on capitalism's responsibility for pollution. If industries pollute it is incumbent upon those industries to clean up their mess.

Furthermore continuous exploitation of finite resources will, eventually, result in the demise of the capitalist enterprise exploiting such resources.

I think the recent events in Scotland have demonstrated that there is no real incentive for any economy to seriously address pollution and climate change. Also, there is the simple fact that what we have done so far cannot be stopped, even if everything was switched off tonight.

We have to recognise that we cannot continue with our consumer driven economies without endangering life on the planet that includes huge swathes of its human populations. The planet itself will continue and life will go on. However, human life as we have come to know it, may not continue.

Furthermore there is an ethical dimension to the conscious and deliberate destruction of other eco-systems and organisms purely for human gratification.

<Snipped >The establishment of regulations must [inevitably] curb capitalism's "natural" proclivities.

You seem to mistake capitalism for the industries that work under that system. You can't expect Capitalism to deal with pollution in the same way you can't expect modern medicine to figure out how many computers to sell and for what price.

Economic systems aren't really designed, on their own, to handle pollution. That requires intervention into the market, to do. Also, recognize that Capitalism is not the same as a laissez faire free market

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You seem to mistake capitalism for the industries that work under that system. You can't expect Capitalism to deal with pollution in the same way you can't expect modern medicine to figure out how many computers to sell and for what price.

Economic systems aren't really designed, on their own, to handle pollution. That requires intervention into the market, to do. Also, recognize that Capitalism is not the same as a laissez faire free market

Ah so you are discussing an abstract? Likewise your references to Communism or Socialism?

[CivilDiscourse]

Ah so you are discussing an abstract? Likewise your references to Communism or Socialism?

Perhaps you should define capitalism, since you are using a definition that is apparently unique to you.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Perhaps you should define capitalism, since you are using a definition that is apparently unique to you.

Investopedia has a succinct definition.

Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned economy or command economy.

The purest form of capitalism is free market or laissez-faire capitalism. Here, private individuals are unrestrained. They may determine where to invest, what to produce or sell, and at which prices to exchange goods and services. The laissez-faire marketplace operates without checks or controls.

It goes on to state:

Today, most countries practice a mixed capitalist system that includes some degree of government regulation of business and ownership of select industries.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalism.asp

[Sparko]

To work or go hungry and/or lose one's home is hardly a choice.

No. To get another job or work for yourself. You realize that this whole example is regarding independent gig drivers for Amazon right? They are independent contractor delivery drivers. They can do the same thing for a slew of other companies, like Door Dash, Uber, Grubhub, And right now companies are begging for workers and even paying hiring bonuses.

And have you read how capitalism tried to prevent workers from getting rights?

and yet the system worked and the workers prevailed.

Then we must assume that the likes of Bakker, Long, Swaggart, Cardinal Law, and Savage are true Christians. Don't do as we do. Do as we say.

Your whataboutism-fu is weak.

[CivilDiscourse]

Investopedia has a succinct definition.

Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned economy or command economy.

The purest form of capitalism is free market or laissez-faire capitalism. Here, private individuals are unrestrained. They may determine where to invest, what to produce or sell, and at which prices to exchange goods and services. The laissez-faire marketplace operates without checks or controls.

It goes on to state:

Today, most countries practice a mixed capitalist system that includes some degree of government regulation of business and ownership of select industries.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalism.asp

So, how am I talking "Abstract"