"go, sell all that you have and give to the poor..."

[rogue06]

So, your point is....? You've asked a bunch of people on this board about this, and they say very few (if any) here believe it. You've stated, that others do. Do you want them to argue for the belief of others, defend the belief of others? What exactly are you looking for?

As previously observed:

And yet here you are posting it on this website obviously wanting a reaction from the membership. And when you get it, and it is not exactly as you had hoped, you snivel about it being "not particularly representative of the millions of Christians within the USA."


So in short summary...

225406_1348469.gif

The thread did not go as she planned

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

So, your point is....? You've asked a bunch of people on this board about this, and they say very few (if any) here believe it. You've stated, that others do. Do you want them to argue for the belief of others, defend the belief of others? What exactly are you looking for?

And as noted there are other millionaire pastors around.

[CivilDiscourse]

And as noted there are other millionaire pastors around.

Again, what point are you trying to make? You don't seem to really have one other than "Look at these rich christians!"

[Sparko]

Such is the advice Jesus offers the rich man who wants to inherit eternal life.

How can that injunction can be justified by the tax free millionaire lifestyles enjoyed by several religious leaders/pastors in the USA?

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other...20/ar-BB10WK2P


Kenneth Copeland - $300 million

His ministry is majorly done through television, books, DVDs and CDs. Copeland has been clouded with controversy related to his wealth and the reliance on church funds to support his lifestyle. The preacher has three private jets which he uses for trips to resorts and personal vacations.

Pat Robertson - $100 million

He is the founder and CEO of the Christian Coalition, which is a Christian Right organization that raises money and public support for conservative political candidates.

Creflo Dollar - $27 million

The pastor does not shy from showcasing his wealth as he is the proud owner of two Rolls-Royces, a million-dollar house, a private jet and several other assets in the US.

Rick Warren - $25 million

Rick Warren is the founder of the Saddleback Church located in Lake Forest, California. It is one of the largest churches in America that averages a weekly attendance of 20,000 people. It has resulted in the pastor making a lot of money through church donations. Also, he is an author who is enthusiastic about religion, uplifting the poor and the promotion of education.


And why do so many American Christians give their money to these individuals and others like them?

Creflo Dollar is not a Christian. He is a Word of Faith Scammer who will one day stand before God and answer for his thievery.
Same with Kenneth Copeland.

Pat Roberston I don't know much about.

Rick Warren - I read he "reverse tithes" 90% of his income back to the church and charity and does not take a salary. He lives an average lifestyle with no yachts or planes.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

If all Christians were homeless then they wouldn't have had places to meet and conduct service.

Yet your eponymous founder often taught al fresco and received his food and shelter from his fellow Jews.

They really couldn't have maintained the communications network they had established throughout the Western Mediterranean since nobody would know how to contact anyone.

Given that early Pauline Christianity was a clandestine cult, its adherents met secretly either in places well away from public view or in private homes, and often at night. Thus leading to suspicion [and salacious rumours] among their neighbours.

Maybe you should have looked then. What they got in trouble for was lying.

“But a man named Ananias, with the consent of his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property; ² with his wife’s knowledge, he kept back some of the proceeds, and brought only a part and laid it at the apostles’ feet.” [Acts 5.1-2]

That is nothing to do with lying. They held back some of the cash.

Why would I answer questions that you wouldn't?

You have given a quote from a text.

Anyone with an iota of probity would either [a] offer the page numbers and chapters if they had the text to hand; or [b] provide an acknowledgement that they did not possess the work and give a link to the website from whence they obtained that piece of text.

But if you want to know, I retrieved the info from previous posts in a discussion with KG, when I had still had access to the book.

Are those exchanges still available? If so, you can provide the links with your citations and other references.

However, that you do not know the title by Martin that Blomberg references suggests that [as with Twelftree’s work] you do not have the slightest idea as to its title.

Not sure what the "lewd" have to do this

Then once again you show your ignorance. The word “lewd” had different connotations in the English of the 16^th and 17^th centuries and referred not only salacious actions or thoughts but also to ignorance or "base" behaviour i.e. considered to be [among other things] offensive, indelicate, coarse, or boorish. A drunk up in front of the magistrate for brawling might find their behaviour being described as lewd.

Puritan Protestants of course deemed everything of which they disapproved as “lewd” and that included theatre, dancing, what they considered “profane” music, card playing, drinking, certain dress-codes, and behaviours.

So what's your point?

The point was made concerning interpretations of biblical texts that often depict “material possessions being a blessing from God.”.

Among some of the more extreme Protestant sects those texts lead to ideas of predestination and the Elect. If you are materially blessed it shows that god favours you. If you are poor it shows that god does not favour you.

From such nonsensical notions developed the idea of the “deserving” poor [the insane, the crippled, the sick, the old, very young children] and the “undeserving” poor, those who were able-bodied but did not work, either because they were unable to find work or because they preferred to resort to other [often criminal] pursuits and/or vagrancy [which could also be considered criminal and was certainly viewed with opprobrium]. I notice that similar attitudes concerning the “undeserving” poor still percolate around this board whenever welfare and social programmes are being considered.

Read up on English Poor Relief Acts in the late sixteenth century. Those include the work schemes introduced for the able-bodied poor as well as apprenticeships for pauper children. Those work schemes offered a supply of cheap labour for whom the alternative was vagrancy [with all the attendant risks] or destitution.

You will find a severe dearth of Prosperity Gospel advocates around here.

As I have previously noted this board offers the opinions of a very small population of Christians both in the USA and beyond.
However, as I noted in my OP there are other Christian pastors that lead a millionaire lifestyle.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Creflo Dollar is not a Christian. He is a Word of Faith Scammer who will one day stand before God and answer for his thievery.
Same with Kenneth Copeland.

Well that is your opinion. Both may consider themselves to be devout Christians and I assume plenty tune in to Copeland.

Pat Roberston I don't know much about.

He also has a healthy bank balance

Rick Warren - I read he "reverse tithes" 90% of his income back to the church and charity and does not take a salary.

Apparently he gets his income from donations which have presumably helped to create his own personal fortune.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Again, what point are you trying to make? You don't seem to really have one other than "Look at these rich christians!"

My point was that some Christian leaders ignore the injunctions of their eponymous founder - hypocrisy writ large.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

So you would disregard every single poll based solely upon the fact that they don't poll everyone. Well, except when you cite one and it reports what you want to hear.

• Well here is a cheery note. From a poll taken by Monmouth University. It appears that "Most confident that election was fair"
• I ask because last year Politico published the results of a poll it held that found "most Republicans would support legislation banning assault-style weapons."
• Furthermore, over the past seventy years no poll that has been conducted has found a majority of Americans in favour of the Electoral College and only approximately a third of those polled in 2019 “would prefer to keep it.”

So as we can see that you have absolutely no trouble at all citing polls that ask a miniscule percentage of the population (typically a few hundred to a couple of thousand out of a population of 330 MILLION), treating their results as authoritative -- but only when they say something you like.

Will you be changing your name to Hypocrite_Alexandria any time soon?

All that is entirely irrelevant to this thread as no polls have been conducted.

[CivilDiscourse]

My point was that some Christian leaders ignore the injunctions of their eponymous founder - hypocrisy writ large.

So, you are telling people their interpretation of scripture is wrong? As a non-christian?

[rogue06]

Apparently he gets his income from donations which have presumably helped to create his own personal fortune.

FWIU, his wealth actually comes from book sales. According to his publisher Warren's The Purpose Driven Life is among the bestselling nonfiction books in publishing history, having been translated into 137 languages and selling over 50 million copies.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

So, you are telling people their interpretation of scripture is wrong? As a non-christian?

CD there is no correct interpretation of these texts. Do you not understand that?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

FWIU, his wealth actually comes from book sales. According to his publisher Warren's The Purpose Driven Life is among the bestselling nonfiction books in publishing history, having been translated into 137 languages and selling over 50 million copies.

Corroborative sources? Or is this another example of an exchange you had some time ago?

[rogue06]

CD there is no correct interpretation of these texts. Do you not understand that?

Wrong.

And one day we'll find out in our turn what it is.

[CivilDiscourse]

CD there is no correct interpretation of these texts. Do you not understand that?

I would, except you specifically said this:
" ignore the injunctions of their eponymous founder - hypocrisy writ large."

If there is no correct interpretation, they cannot be ignoring the injunctions, nor be hypocrites WRT these teachings.

[rogue06]

Corroborative sources? Or is this another example of an exchange you had some time ago?

I guess Hypocrite_Alexandria hadn't reached the level of buffoonery she sought to express:

fa99b6b4-30b1-4339-bc7a-28b7ba12ae1e.jpg

And that wasn't even the source I used but thought it made for a nice screen capture what with the publisher's logo and all that.