The Insurrection Lie II: False Reports ...Continue To Unravel.

[rogue06]

Perhaps he was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher. There is video of at least one police officer being hit with a thrown fire extinguisher, though it may not have been Sicknick.

The evidence is beginning to indicate otherwise. The investigation appears to be turning toward looking whether there was some sort of reaction to the chemical irritants that were being used or maybe even a preexisting medical condition that was responsible. But it seems that the MSM has little to no interest in obtaining the autopsy report conducted by the medical examiner which is in itself telling. Almost like they're afraid the findings will overturn the desired narrative if made public.

[Stoic]

A negative is pretty much impossible to prove, so it's a possibility, but with little to no foundation.

The foundation appears to be anonymous sources among the police, reported by both the NYT and WUSA9, at least.

So, you've made the case for why the lying liberals would have been better off waiting until all the facts are in before launching yet another impeachment sham.

They didn't want facts - they wanted "heat of the moment" emotion.

I'm not sure the cause of death for Sicknick was material to whether Trump should be impeached.

[seanD]

The evidence is beginning to indicate otherwise. The investigation appears to be turning toward looking whether there was some sort of reaction to the chemical irritants that were being used or maybe even a preexisting medical condition that was responsible. But it seems that the MSM has little to no interest in obtaining the autopsy report conducted by the medical examiner which is in itself telling. Almost like they're afraid the findings will overturn the desired narrative if made public.

I assumed from the OP, it was already established from the family he didn't die from the protest events and that was the "the lie." I guess I read that wrong.

[Stoic]

The evidence is beginning to indicate otherwise. The investigation appears to be turning toward looking whether there was some sort of reaction to the chemical irritants that were being used or maybe even a preexisting medical condition that was responsible. But it seems that the MSM has little to no interest in obtaining the autopsy report conducted by the medical examiner which is in itself telling. Almost like they're afraid the findings will overturn the desired narrative if made public.

The evidence seems to indicate that he did not die because he was struck with a fire extinguisher. But that doesn't mean he wasn't struck with a fire extinguisher.

[rogue06]

The evidence seems to indicate that he did not die because he was struck with a fire extinguisher. But that doesn't mean he wasn't struck with a fire extinguisher.

If there was no evidence of blunt trauma then it is unlikely he was hit. Also, if he had been hit there's typically an incident report filed even if there wasn't any serious damage. Basically, it's done for insurance/workman's comp reasons in case something comes up later. You know, like at almost every workplace -- especially if a union is involved.

Again the coroner's report could answer many questions and the MSM as are usually (figuratively) beating down the door demand it be released, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

[NorrinRadd]

The foundation appears to be anonymous sources among the police, reported by both the NYT and WUSA9, at least.


I'm not sure the cause of death for Sicknick was material to whether Trump should be impeached.

Serious question -- Wasn't it repeatedly mentioned by the House Impeachment Managers? I'd heard that it was, but I didn't actually bother to watch any of the circus.

[rogue06]

Serious question -- Wasn't it repeatedly mentioned by the House Impeachment Managers? I'd heard that it was, but I didn't actually bother to watch any of the circus.

It was brought up fairly extensively on the (IIRC) third day and was listed in the House impeachment resolution H. RES. 24 (page 4, line 13 and 14): "injured and killed law enforcement personnel" as well as listed in the impeachment managers pretrial memo (page 28): "The insurrectionists killed a Capitol Police officer by striking him in the head with a fire extinguisher^131" (the footnote citation reads "Marc Santora et al., Capitol Police Officer Dies from Injuries in Pro-Trump Rampage, N.Y. Times (Jan. 8, 2021).").

Note that the pretrial memo was filed on February 2, which was well after significant question about and doubts surrounding how Sicknick died had first surfaced. Also note that it is incumbent on the prosecution to disclose whether there is evidence that any claim they made may be inaccurate, or -- at the minimum -- cannot be proven. Many a conviction has been thrown out when it was disclosed that the prosecutor withheld such information. They never did.

[Cow Poke]

It was brought up fairly extensively on the (IIRC) third day and was listed in the House impeachment resolution H. RES. 24 (page 4, line 13 and 14): "injured and killed law enforcement personnel" as well as listed in the impeachment managers pretrial memo (page 28): "The insurrectionists killed a Capitol Police officer by striking him in the head with a fire extinguisher^131" (the footnote citation reads "Marc Santora et al., Capitol Police Officer Dies from Injuries in Pro-Trump Rampage, N.Y. Times (Jan. 8, 2021).").

Note that the pretrial memo was filed on February 2, which was well after significant question about and doubts surrounding how Sicknick died had first surfaced. Also note that it is incumbent on the prosecution to disclose whether there is evidence that any claim they made may be inaccurate, or -- at the minimum -- cannot be proven. Many a conviction has been thrown out when it was disclosed that the prosecutor withheld such information. They never did.

Which, again, is why the rush to judgement before facts could be evaluated --- GIT A ROPE, then we'll do a thorough investigation after than hangin' (if anybody's still interested).

[Stoic]

Serious question -- Wasn't it repeatedly mentioned by the House Impeachment Managers? I'd heard that it was, but I didn't actually bother to watch any of the circus.

The managers claimed that he was killed by being struck with a fire extinguisher, and cited a NYT article. But the NYT article that they cited said that he died after being struck with a fire extinguisher, which is not quite the same thing. However, it was being widely reported at the time that he was killed by being struck with a fire extinguisher.

[Stoic]

If there was no evidence of blunt trauma then it is unlikely he was hit. Also, if he had been hit there's typically an incident report filed even if there wasn't any serious damage. Basically, it's done for insurance/workman's comp reasons in case something comes up later. You know, like at almost every workplace -- especially if a union is involved.

If it hit his helmet, he might not have thought it worth bothering about.

[Stoic]

Which, again, is why the rush to judgement before facts could be evaluated --- GIT A ROPE, then we'll do a thorough investigation after than hangin' (if anybody's still interested).

I thought the rush was because they thought he couldn't be impeached after he left office.

In any case, the impeachment was for incitement, not for murder.

[NorrinRadd]

Which, again, is why the rush to judgement before facts could be evaluated --- GIT A ROPE, then we'll do a thorough investigation after than hangin' (if anybody's still interested).

Turley has said repeatedly and with no little dismay that it was clear the objective of the House was to provoke outrage, not to actually get a guilty verdict in the Senate.

[seanD]

Turley has said repeatedly and with no little dismay that it was clear the objective of the House was to provoke outrage, not to actually get a guilty verdict in the Senate.

I don't know if this is specifically Turley's argument, but the conspiracy I've heard is they're intentionally trying to provoke another violent action so they can keep labeling conservatives a threat. I don't think that's necessary, as their laughably overblown reaction to the capitol incident is enough for that. Plus, impeachment tedium instead of focusing on the current crisis in this country can actually backfire spectacularly against them even with the left. I think the House Dems have just collectively gone insane.. literally.

[rogue06]

If it hit his helmet, he might not have thought it worth bothering about.

You really seem grimly determined to have him being hit on the head with a fire extinguisher regardless of there just not being any evidence for it and several things against it. Also, I think a clue might be what he texted his brother.

[rogue06]

The managers claimed that he was killed by being struck with a fire extinguisher, and cited a NYT article. But the NYT article that they cited said that he died after being struck with a fire extinguisher, which is not quite the same thing.

And by the time they wrote their pretrial report and even more so by the time the trial had commenced doubts had been raised whether the anonymous source's story was accurate. They are required to make those doubts known but they plowed on ahead claiming he was killed due to being hit over the head with a fire extinguisher. As I said, that sort of disreputable behavior results in convictions getting summarily tossed out.

So we have the House managers falsely declaring Sicknick was killed as a result of the blow to the head when all that was alleged is he later died after he was hit. And then when it became doubtful that he was ever hit at all they still were asserting that he died due to a blow to the head. That's the sort of reprehensible behavior that leads to lawyers facing disbarment.

However, it was being widely reported at the time that he was killed by being struck with a fire extinguisher.

Based and embellished the anonymous sources cited in the NYT article. And again, contrary to every other time when something like this happens the MSM isn't demanding (even filing suit if necessary) to have the medical examiner's report be made public. It's almost like they don't want to see it.