The Insurrection Lie II: False Reports ...Continue To Unravel.

[Cow Poke]

If it hit his helmet, he might not have thought it worth bothering about.

And if he was hit on the helmet and he thought it not "worth bothering about" it obviously didn't kill him.

[Cow Poke]

I don't know if this is specifically Turley's argument, but the conspiracy I've heard is they're intentionally trying to provoke another violent action so they can keep labeling conservatives a threat. I don't think that's necessary, as their laughably overblown reaction to the capitol incident is enough for that. Plus, impeachment tedium instead of focusing on the current crisis in this country can actually backfire spectacularly against them even with the left. I think the House Dems have just collectively gone insane.. literally.

That's what I counting on - that this gross psychotic overreaction from the left will cost them the House and the Senate - then they'll go the rest of the way totally bonkers.

[Stoic]

You really seem grimly determined to have him being hit on the head with a fire extinguisher regardless of there just not being any evidence for it and several things against it. Also, I think a clue might be what he texted his brother.

It seems like the best explanation when two different news outlets report that multiple sources in the police department told them that Sicknick had been struck by a fire extinguisher.

The sources could have been wrong, but the only evidence of it is that there was no sign of blunt force trauma. And since being struck by a fire extinguisher doesn't necessarily cause blunt force trauma, that seems like pretty weak evidence.

[Stoic]

And if he was hit on the helmet and he thought it not "worth bothering about" it obviously didn't kill him.

That seems like a fair conclusion.

[Cow Poke]

It seems like the best explanation when two different news outlets report that multiple sources in the police department told them that Sicknick had been struck by a fire extinguisher.

The sources could have been wrong, but the only evidence of it is that there was no sign of blunt force trauma. And since being struck by a fire extinguisher doesn't necessarily cause blunt force trauma, that seems like pretty weak evidence.

Again, there's an old military wisdom that also applies to police actions - "the first reports from the field are never correct". Things are reported in "the fog of war" that, when exposed to the light of day, become implausible, impossible, untenable.... That's why there are "after action reports" -- let's look at what REALLY happened, that can be validated.

[Cow Poke]

Again, there's an old military wisdom that also applies to police actions - "the first reports from the field are never correct". Things are reported in "the fog of war" that, when exposed to the light of day, become implausible, impossible, untenable.... That's why there are "after action reports" -- let's look at what REALLY happened, that can be validated.

You also have to realize that this was a golden opportunity for the liberals to advance their ongoing narrative - there was absolutely no incentive for them to be truthful or accurate - it was an emotional hot mess.

[whag]

Even though he called for the protestors to behave “peacefully and patriotically” at the Capitol, he has been tried in the United States Senate for inciting an insurrection. Who exactly did he incite? He cannot be responsible for those inside the Capitol who were not his supporters. Indeed, he was addressing his supporters at a venue 45-minutes away when the breach occurred. Nor can he be blamed for those who were waved into the building. The Senators who heard the impeachment case bear greater responsibility for failed security on the premises. Nor can he be responsible for any of his supporters who went too far and did something inappropriate. That is the lesson from this summer’s riots when any troublemakers were carefully separated from the larger cause.

"We love you. You are very special."

"Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are,"

“These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously and viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love and in peace. Remember this day forever!”

He was saying be peaceful while knowing his huge influence would create chaos, which is why he stuck with his "I love you, patriots" schmaltz. He was smart enough to know that explicit incitement would incriminate him, so he engaged in duplicity. Duplicitous sounds like a more fitting adjective for Trump, I'm sure you'd agree. Duplicity requires intelligence, granted, but not the kind that can ever be mistaken with genius.

[Cow Poke]

The managers claimed that he was killed by being struck with a fire extinguisher, and cited a NYT article. But the NYT article that they cited said that he died after being struck with a fire extinguisher, which is not quite the same thing. However, it was being widely reported at the time that he was killed by being struck with a fire extinguisher.

Let's check into what that vast right wing conspiracy factchecker SNOPES says....

News outlets reporting such information cite either other news reports or unnamed sources. CNN reported on Feb. 2, 2021:

Authorities have reviewed video and photographs that show Sicknick engaging with rioters amid the siege but have yet to identify a moment in which he suffered his fatal injuries, law enforcement officials familiar with the matter said.

CNN additionally reported:

According to one law enforcement official, medical examiners did not find signs that the officer sustained any blunt force trauma, so investigators believe that early reports that he was fatally struck by a fire extinguisher are not true.

Sicknick’s brother, Ken Sicknick, told the non-profit news outlet ProPublica that Brian Sicknick’s family had been informed the officer had suffered a stroke resulting from a blood clot. (The term “stroke” means an event in which blood flow to the brain is interrupted, resulting in brain cell death.) Ken Sicknick also said his brother told him in a text message sent before he collapsed that he had been hit with bear spray wielded by rioters.

There isn’t enough information from official sources available at this time to state either way what the cause and manner of Sicknick’s death was, or what mechanisms contributed to it. We will update this story with further information when it becomes available.

So we have...

A) no identifiable moment when Sicknick was fatally struck
2) medical examiners unable to confirm any blunt force trama
C) Sicknick's brother reveals that Sicknick's family was told he suffered a stroke from a blood clot.

Now, another factor that seems be tip-toed around -- an officer dying from injuries received while on duty gets much better benefits for his family than one who simply dies from a blood-clot induced stroke. So, there's that.

And the liberals jumped to conclusions and awarded him honors reserved for those who actually died in a police action in to bolster their hate-filled campaign.

In other words, they USED Sicknick for their own sick purposes.

[Stoic]

Again, there's an old military wisdom that also applies to police actions - "the first reports from the field are never correct". Things are reported in "the fog of war" that, when exposed to the light of day, become implausible, impossible, untenable.... That's why there are "after action reports" -- let's look at what REALLY happened, that can be validated.

The "fog of war" seem like a better explanation than anyone intentionally lying about Sicknick.

That, and people drawing inappropriate conclusions, such as "he died after being struck by a fire extinguisher" meaning "he was killed by being struck with a fire extinguisher".

And yes, when people's emotions are riled up because of his death, there is some risk to asking, "But was he really...?" (Risk to liberals from other liberals in this case, but still a risk.)

[Stoic]

Let's check into what that vast right wing conspiracy factchecker SNOPES says....

News outlets reporting such information cite either other news reports or unnamed sources. CNN reported on Feb. 2, 2021:

Authorities have reviewed video and photographs that show Sicknick engaging with rioters amid the siege but have yet to identify a moment in which he suffered his fatal injuries, law enforcement officials familiar with the matter said.

CNN additionally reported:

According to one law enforcement official, medical examiners did not find signs that the officer sustained any blunt force trauma, so investigators believe that early reports that he was fatally struck by a fire extinguisher are not true.

Sicknick’s brother, Ken Sicknick, told the non-profit news outlet ProPublica that Brian Sicknick’s family had been informed the officer had suffered a stroke resulting from a blood clot. (The term “stroke” means an event in which blood flow to the brain is interrupted, resulting in brain cell death.) Ken Sicknick also said his brother told him in a text message sent before he collapsed that he had been hit with bear spray wielded by rioters.

There isn’t enough information from official sources available at this time to state either way what the cause and manner of Sicknick’s death was, or what mechanisms contributed to it. We will update this story with further information when it becomes available.

So we have...

A) no identifiable moment when Sicknick was fatally struck
2) medical examiners unable to confirm any blunt force trama
C) Sicknick's brother reveals that Sicknick's family was told he suffered a stroke from a blood clot.

Now, another factor that seems be tip-toed around -- an officer dying from injuries received while on duty gets much better benefits for his family than one who simply dies from a blood-clot induced stroke. So, there's that.

And the liberals jumped to conclusions and awarded him honors reserved for those who actually died in a police action in to bolster their hate-filled campaign.

In other words, they USED Sicknick for their own sick purposes.

So the most likely explanations of Sicknick's death would be

1) A blood clot formed for some reason unrelated to the Capitol riot, causing a stroke which resulted in his death.

2) A blood clot formed because he was injured (however slightly) defending the Capitol, causing a stroke which resulted in his death.

If there isn't conclusive evidence one way or the other, it seems like fairness would require us to assume that it's (2).

[Cow Poke]

So the most likely explanations of Sicknick's death would be

1) A blood clot formed for some reason unrelated to the Capitol riot, causing a stroke which resulted in his death.
2) A blood clot formed because he was injured (however slightly) defending the Capitol, causing a stroke which resulted in his death.

If there isn't conclusive evidence one way or the other, it seems like fairness would require us to assume that it's (2).

First of all, why? Fair why? Fair to whom?

Second - NONE of this justifies the liberals bringing the high praise and undeserved honor of Lying in State at the Capitol Rotunda to an officer who died after the fact from other causes.
That was all part of their theater, and shows how low they will stoop to advance their own agenda.

I'm about as "pro-police" as you can get, but I would NEVER want any of my relatives to be used as a prop in some dishonest scheme to advance a political agenda.

But I do respect the fact that you seem to be interested in learning about this, and even adjusting your position on it.

[Stoic]

First of all, why? Fair why? Fair to whom?

Fairness to the police officers, more than a hundred of whom were injured defending the Capitol.

I don't think it would be fair for the standard to be, "We'll only consider you to have died in the line of duty if it can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt."

If we accidentally get it wrong, it means little to us as a society, whereas it means a lot to the officer's family.

[Gondwanaland]

Perhaps he was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher. There is video of at least one police officer being hit with a thrown fire extinguisher, though it may not have been Sicknick.

He was not. According to CNN's sources the ME said no sign of physical trauma.

[Gondwanaland]

So the most likely explanations of Sicknick's death would be

1) A blood clot formed for some reason unrelated to the Capitol riot, causing a stroke which resulted in his death.

2) A blood clot formed because he was injured (however slightly) defending the Capitol, causing a stroke which resulted in his death.

If there isn't conclusive evidence one way or the other, it seems like fairness would require us to assume that it's (2).

1 being far more likely (especially people who live in America and who largely eat the SAD)

2 has zero evidence supporting it. Actually negative evidence as it appears the ME didnt find such injury.

his diet, or genetics, are likely what killed hin.

[Stoic]

He was not. According to CNN's sources the ME said no sign of physical trauma.

And, as I'm getting tired of explaining, that is not proof that he was not struck by a fire extinguisher, since it might not cause physical trauma. (Yes, that would mean he was not killed by the fire extinguisher, but the question at hand is whether anyone lied in saying that he was struck by one.)

And since you have two different news outlets reporting that multiple sources in the police department said that Sicknick was struck by a fire extinguisher, the most likely explanation seems to be that he was actually struck by one, even if he wasn't killed by being struck by one.

Granted, the next most likely would be that someone made it up so that he could be said to have died in the line of duty, but it doesn't seem like they would have needed to be so specific. And if you're going to accuse someone of lying, I think you would need more than that.