Animals are not OURS!!!

[Cow Poke]

It's so hard to tell if PETA is sincere or a parody.

That's the legacy they have left for themselves, and anybody who tries to defend their nuttery.

[rogue06]

Humane Society honestly has had a number of the same missteps as PETA wrt euthanizing, etc..

PETA has, on the whole, had far more effect worldwide on reducing the abuse, mistreatment, of animals, than the Humane Society. So why not both? Both is fine.

I was going to point out that the Humane Society isn't perfect either and has a few problems of their own, but at least they don't seem to be intentionally dishonest unlike PETA. And PETA is the worst sort of hypocrites. Saying that they are for helping animals while going around and getting animals from shelters and merely taking them to be euthanized.

[Gondwanaland]

Got a cite for that last part?

You already ignored my post bringing up just miniscule a fraction of the things PETA has achieved (just in the last year or so). So....

[Gondwanaland]

I was going to point out that the Humane Society isn't perfect either and has a few problems of their own, but at least they don't seem to be intentionally dishonest unlike PETA. And PETA is the worst sort of hypocrites. Saying that they are for helping animals while going around and getting animals from shelters and merely taking them to be euthanized.

*Shrug* As I've already noted, several times now, I and many other animal rights activists disagree with PETA's euthenasia practices. But the good that they've achieved far outweighs that bad. And HS has had its share of dishonesty.

[Gondwanaland]

Not quite accurate. God made the animals before He made Adam, and gave the animals into Adam's care. God even used the word for "livestock". And every plant for food. The first animal killed was by God to make coverings for sin, yes. But God didn't forbid the eating of animals or the use of them for clothing after the fall, except certain ones which were unclean. But God removed even that restriction in Acts.

Not a Christian so I don't particularly care that much. I do find it mindboggling that Christians would harm the beings that God supposedly created. But then I look at what they do to the environment, and realize most don't really give a darn in the first place. They take the 'dominion' thing quite seriously in the sense that they work to dominate and destroy.

My first statement was serious. The last bit was definitely tongue in cheek.

Ah, so the part about finding it odd that I'm vehement toward people who aren't vegan, and that I should just be vegan and let you eat meat in peace was the serious part?

Sorry, I can't. Just as I can't let people murder babies in the womb in peace and practice not-murdering-babies-in-the-womb silently without bothering anyone else. I won't, and can't, remain silent when people harm other beings.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

So, aside from the fact that "argument by weblink" is a violation of Tweb rules - your links do NOTHING to show that PETA is anything other than a bunch of extremist nutters.

Try to concentrate --- the thread is about PETA.

I made the point about the greater impact of the consumption of meat which one of the main concerns of PETA. I simply provided links to support my comments.

[rogue06]

That's simply patently false and a denial of basic biology.

Basic biology shows that dairy cows tend to keep producing large quantities of milk for several years after giving birth and long after their calf has been weaned. That was essentially what they were bred for thousands of years to do.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Let's see.... the pro-lifers I know (I'm one) hold prayer vigils outside abortion clinics, run clinics for pregnant women, collect and distribute food, pay for sonograms and other medical procedures, vitamins, medicines, and - most recently, in my area, purchased a building formerly used as an abortion clinic to care for pregnant women and give counsel and encouragement.

PETA, on the other hand, tends to go to the extremes of throwing fake blood on people, being as gross as they can (like posting really disgusting pictures)....

Once again you are coralling all PETA members and activists in an attempt to support your contention. Not all PETA members and activists do those things anymore than all pro-lifers bomb abortion clinics or murder staff.

I think the point is that PETA is not really like "other animal charities"

It uses very similar tactics in the form of shock images and graphic descriptions that so many pro-lifers use.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Basic biology shows that dairy cows tend to keep producing large quantities of milk for several years after giving birth and long after their calf has been weaned. That was essentially what they were bred for thousands of years to do.

Are you seriously trying to compare today's intensive farming practices with early farming "thousands of years" ago?

First question, how many "thousands of years" back are you going?

[Gondwanaland]

Basic biology shows that dairy cows tend to keep producing large quantities of milk for several years after giving birth and long after their calf has been weaned. That was essentially what they were bred for thousands of years to do.

THey certainly do - WHEN THEY ARE BEING REGULARLY IMPREGNATED. That's the reason they are impregnated very quickly after their calves are taken away, as soon as possible. So the milk production continues with the start of a new cycle. They don't magically just keep producing milk for years after a single birth without continued impregnation and births. That's not how basic biology works. That's why farmers keep artificially inseminating them. They don't waste their money masturbating a bull and then storing its semen and then impregnating the cows just for the hell of it. They do so because that is what keeps the large quantities of milk coming. Without doing so, just like literally every other being with mammary glands, the milk dries up within a month or two of weaning. The 'several years' is how long the cows are productive whilst being kept perpetually with child. And after their production goes down, they are sent to the slaughterhouse, often with a baby growing inside them (think about that, all you 'pro-life' folks).

[rogue06]

On one hand I can understand it - cognitive dissonance along with being raised to think exploiting animals is normal. I was them at one point, so I can understand in one way.

But it still boggles my mind that we can be so cognitively dissonant that people who are pro-life (disclaimer, I am pro-life myself) and see even the tiniest of human cells and understand that they deserve life, deserve the right to grow and live, and then at the same time look at highly intelligent animals with their own thoughts, lives, desire to live, and think "ok, let's kill that and eat its flesh". It boggles my mind that I was once exactly that person.

I can appreciate your passion and compassion but I don't agree with this "A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. They’re all animals." philosophy espoused by PETA. There is a difference between human life and the lives of animals.

Moreover, as a Christian I believe that God gave us stewardship over the animals including the right to use some for food. Even Jesus fed the multitude with bread and fish and even ate it Himself

Scripture Verse: Luke 24:42-43

They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate before them.

© Copyright Original Source

I'll note that some texts also include "and some honeycomb" but that doesn't change the fact that He ate fish

[rogue06]

THey certainly do - WHEN THEY ARE BEING REGULARLY IMPREGNATED. That's the reason they are impregnated very quickly after their calves are taken away, as soon as possible. So the milk production continues with the start of a new cycle. They don't magically just keep producing milk for years after a single birth without continued impregnation and births. That's not how basic biology works. That's why farmers keep artificially inseminating them. They don't waste their money masturbating a bull and then storing its semen and then impregnating the cows just for the hell of it. They do so because that is what keeps the large quantities of milk coming. Without doing so, just like literally every other being with mammary glands, the milk dries up within a month or two of weaning. The 'several years' is how long the cows are productive whilst being kept perpetually with child. And after their production goes down, they are sent to the slaughterhouse, often with a baby growing inside them (think about that, all you 'pro-life' folks).

No. While it is true that they only can start doing so after having been impregnated they often continue producing milk for several years beyond that impregnation. They do not need to keep being impregnated.

[Gondwanaland]

I can appreciate your passion and compassion but I don't agree with this "A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. They’re all animals." philosophy espoused by PETA. There is a difference between human life and the lives of animals.

You don't have to agree with it in order to agree that animals should not be exploited and killed.

Moreover, as a Christian I believe that God gave us stewardship over the animals including the right to use some for food. Even Jesus fed the multitude with bread and fish and even ate it Himself

Scripture Verse: Luke 24:42-43

They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate before them.

© Copyright Original Source

I'll note that some texts also include "and some honeycomb" but that doesn't change the fact that He ate fish

Again, boggles the mind that a Christian would be in favor of killing and causing suffering to the creatures God supposedly created. But again, it's clear you've come up with ways to justify it to yourselves. And also, again, it's clear that many christians only care about domination and destruction of nature, the environment, and animals.

[mossrose]

Not a Christian so I don't particularly care that much. I do find it mindboggling that Christians would harm the beings that God supposedly created. But then I look at what they do to the environment, and realize most don't really give a darn in the first place. They take the 'dominion' thing quite seriously in the sense that they work to dominate and destroy.

I don't know why you seem to think that Christians harm the environment or "work to dominate and destroy". That's a bit far-reaching, I think. Most of us do care about the environment, but I personally don't think there is much that man can do to change nature. I think the global warming thing is overblown and that the world is deteriorating because of the Fall. I also believe that God will burn up the entire thing in the end, as scripture says, and nothing we do or don't do will change that. I don't know anybody in the Christian community personally who goes out of their way to dominate and destroy the environment.

Ah, so the part about finding it odd that I'm vehement toward people who aren't vegan, and that I should just be vegan and let you eat meat in peace was the serious part?

Sorry, I can't. Just as I can't let people murder babies in the womb in peace and practice not-murdering-babies-in-the-womb silently without bothering anyone else. I won't, and can't, remain silent when people harm other beings.

And you are totally entitled to your opinion on this matter, as am I.

May I ask you what you do to not let people murder unborn babies? Are you an anti-abortion protester, do you work in a pregnancy counselling centre? Just curious.

[Gondwanaland]

No. While it is true that they only can start doing so after having been impregnated they often continue producing milk for several years beyond that impregnation. They do not need to keep being impregnated.

False. They most certainly do. You are in denial of basic biology. Farmers routinely, and yearly, continue to impregnate them. Because that is the only way they continue to produce milk. I really don't know what else to say to someone who has bought into this fantasy that cows somehow are 'made' to produce milk and will do so without continual impregnation. It defies all explanation, and also denies basic facts of what goes on on the farms. Maybe you don't want to believe your great whatever-uncle told you some fibs. But come back down to the real world. Farmers don't waste their money and resources on continually impregnating dairy cows just because they feel like it, dude. They do it because if they don't, the milk shortly after weaning dries up and so does their profit.