Holding their feet to the fire ...

[jordanriver]

Of course, Aig probably wouldn't hire me since I wouldn't commit to any earth age.
(When you got a miracle causing Almighty Creator, all bets are off)

[rogue06]

Not at my house.

...unless I was some famous evangelist (IOW, a TARGET)

Really? Demanding doctrinal purity over such a non-Salvific issue before permitting any and every sort of association and contact reaks of the most dangerous sort of fanaticism.

[jordanriver]

Really? Demanding doctrinal purity over such a non-Salvific issue before permitting any and every sort of association and contact reaks of the most dangerous sort of fanaticism.

look,
I think the earth is old
(it was the magnetic striping mirror image on the seafloor moving as fast as fingernail growth)

but from encounters with 'ACTIVIST'/'DETERMINED' OECs , and noticing their virulent/malicious hatred of YECs, I wouldn't trust them if I was a known outspoken YEC. I think that would be foolish to let them in the door , or especially give them any keys.

....now I am not referring to NORMAL PEOPLE who probably believe in an old earth. They have other things on their minds , they don't blog about it, they don't argue about it, . (while channel surfing during the commercial of a football game, they might have come across a PBS NOVA program and thought, oh , so the earth is over 4 billion years old, kool, then went back to the game)

IOW, normal people, not people like us TWEB posters. (don't pretend to be normal, you are not like everybody else in your town, who , if on the internet, are probably not blogging about evolution or politics, they are blogging to see what Hollywood is up to)

I am referring to the small small minority of OECs who obsess about it.
...and are determined to do something about it
....and would love to see an influential YEC fail.

[Jorge]

And try getting a job at AIG if you're not a creationist. Turn about is fair play, don't you agree Jorge or does hiring preferences only matter if the group in question isn't a creationist group?

As is usually the case, you (as well as most of your Atheistic/Humanistic and Theistic Evolutionist allies here on Tweb) are demonstrating ignorance and/or stupidity and/or dishonesty. My vote is on the last two. I will educate you (and your 'pals') ...

AiG or any other Biblical Creationist organization that you care to mention is OPENLY first and foremost about the Gospel of Jesus Christ and leading others that may be lost or confused towards Christ. Thus, the religious message and objective is never hidden but rather it is stated right up front with no deception. You may wish to read this paragraph again to be sure you got it.

The scientific aspect of these organizations (AiG, ICR, CMI, etc.) is meant to counter the opposition ... to show that the opposed views (to Biblical Creationism) are w-r-o-n-g ... to provide evidence and counter-arguments against the lies being promoted by the opposition.

Now compare that with NCSE and similar groups. They claim to be "all about science" ... "purely scientific" ... and similar LIES. The fact of the matter is that they have a RELIGIOUS agenda, specifically, to turn people away from the Word of God that is clearly written in the Christian Bible and towards some other religious doctrine be it Materialistic, a distortion of Biblical Christianity or some pseudo-Christian mumbo-jumbo.

In short, the NCSE and other similar groups and people DECEIVE, LIE and CHEAT and jackasses follow them as sheep to the slaughterhouse.


There, you are now educated on this point.
Of course, the lesson can only be as good as the student that receives it.

Jorge

[Jorge]

Keep in mind that when I provided a list of scholars fired from various institutes when YECs took control (including some of their fellow YECs who apparently weren't doctrinally "pure" enough) Jorge defended it. He is amazingly hypocritical in this matter (is anyone surprised?).

And would he care to make a bet that if NCSE were having some building constructed that they would not have the workers sign an oath that they accepted evolution in order to get a job? That is precisely what Ken Ham's Ark Encounters park requires. You have to be a YEC to pour concrete or hammer a nail.

The UNDISPUTED MASTER of Straw Men, aka rogue06, strikes yet again!

For me, one of the mysteries in the universe is how people like
you can live with yourself and sleep at night.

Jorge

[klaus54]

Actually I think it may be more of an example of the unfortunate trait of distrusting, fearing and eventually hating any and everyone who isn't exactly like you whenever and wherever you may encounter them.

Rogue,

I don't trust anyone but me and you. ...And I'm starting to have my doubts about you.



K54

[klaus54]

The UNDISPUTED MASTER of Straw Men, aka rogue06, strikes yet again!

For me, one of the mysteries in the universe is how people like
you can live with yourself and sleep at night.

Jorge

The undisputed master of not answering questions and/or making irrelevant and/or misleading remarks.

Too funny...

K54


P.S. Where's that projector picture? ...

[klaus54]

ok.

...but wait
There is another American expression:
"Putting your money where your mouth is"

And these so-called haters open their pocketbooks to give to MISSIONS.


And I am sure you don't waste money to share with the already converted

Well that there makes all their stupidity and distrust hunky-dory, don't it now?

How much of that "mission" is preaching YEC to ignorants?

K54

[klaus54]

Of course, Aig probably wouldn't hire me since I wouldn't commit to any earth age.
(When you got a miracle causing Almighty Creator, all bets are off)

You don't have to "commit" to any Earth age. Just open your eyes and look 'round.

I don't have to commit to the day being bright and the night being dark.

Think about it.

...Oooh, that's right. Sorry.

K54

[oxmixmudd]

No! By your MISREPRESENTATION of my approach to Scripture Jesus would be "lying". But I've already written about such dishonest misrepresentations. Heck, by misrepresenting me (as you often do) you can make it appear that I've said just about anything you wish.

Back under the rock you go!

Jorge

Misrepresentation? Better check that English/Spanish dictionary again.

You position is itself both inconsistent and poorly defined. Purposefully so. Your insistence Genesis 1 can't possibly be anything but literal with direct application to scientific inquiry is not based on ANY self-consistent hermeneutic. And therein lies the problem. You can claim misrepresentation regardless of what is said about your approach, because a fixed definition of your approach simply doesn't exist. It is what you want it to be in the moment, and it is necessarily, in that moment, somehow not properly characterized by whatever logic would be used to show its flaws.

Nevertheless, I use the example of Jesus assurance He is coming soon to make the point that sometimes God does NOT speak clearly to His disciples even when that will cause them to act rashly and even perhaps harmfully based on their misunderstanding of what has been said. The only clarification we have is that after some extended time had passed and Jesus had NOT returned (physical evidence outside the direct words of God), the disciples began to apply what they knew about God to Jesus' words to help people understand why the 'plain' meaning of those words might be expected NOT to be the 'correct' meaning of them!

This is no different that reading Psalms 90:4 and realizing the 'days' of Genesis 1 might not necessarily be 'days' as we understanding them in light of what we know about the age of the Earth (physical evidence).

So the idea that God 'would not' reveal creation in a way that was somehow not straightforward is itself fundamentally flawed. And the idea that physical evidence outside what is said in scripture should not be folded into our understanding of the text is ALSO fundamentally flawed.


Jim

[Roy]

AiG or any other Biblical Creationist organization that you care to mention is OPENLY first and foremost about the Gospel of Jesus Christ and leading others that may be lost or confused towards Christ. Thus, the religious message and objective is never hidden but rather it is stated right up front with no deception.

Except when they're trying to sneak their ideas into education or their drivel into journals. At those times, their religious beliefs are deliberately suppressed.

Roy

[Jorge]

Except when they're trying to sneak their ideas into education or their drivel into journals. At those times, their religious beliefs are deliberately suppressed.

Roy

I congratulate you for being the first and only specimen here to address my post #350 in this thread. With those congratulations out of the way, what you wrote (above) is W-R-O-N-G (you probably already knew that - you're just being your typical deceptive self). To wit ...

... Our religious beliefs are NEVER suppressed - not ever, not once. To say otherwise is to be either IGNORANT or DISHONEST -- and you can probably guess which one I believe applies to you here. I was clear on that point when I wrote that the main objective is stated plainly, openly, up-front.

Now, if you believe me to be wrong or lying then all you have to do is to provide just one case where we have tried to "sneak our ideas into education or journals". The operative word is "sneak". Don't try anything cute, anything out of context, that misrepresents reality or omits pertinent facts. If you do I'll shoot you down faster than you can say "23-skidoo".

Jorge

[phank]

So the idea that God 'would not' reveal creation in a way that was somehow not straightforward is itself fundamentally flawed. And the idea that physical evidence outside what is said in scripture should not be folded into our understanding of the text is ALSO fundamentally flawed.


Jim

If we have no idea what was "really meant" by scripture until independent and outside evidence is sufficient to tell, then what does scripture contribute? Again, I'm baffled. If scripture says a few days, and we now know it was a few billion years, sure we can go back and "reinterpret" days to mean billions of years. But scripture added more to our confusion and misunderstanding than it did to our knowledge - unless we're restricting it to applying to our knowledge of the mythology of a long-lost culture.

[Roy]

Our religious beliefs are NEVER suppressed - not ever, not once. To say otherwise is to be either IGNORANT or DISHONEST -- and you can probably guess which one I believe applies to you here. I was clear on that point when I wrote that the main objective is stated plainly, openly, up-front.

Now, if you believe me to be wrong or lying then all you have to do is to provide just one case where we have tried to "sneak our ideas into education or journals".

Easy. The Kitzmiller trial provides a good example, where references to 'creationism' were deliberately changed to 'intelligent design' in order to make an end run around th elaw on educational materials. But there's an even better example - the 'Cornell' conference, where the religious beliefs of the presenters were deliberately and rigorously suppressed:

The BINPS at Cornell University was a purely scientific conference, with no public elements of religion in the presentations or discussion. However, there was a great deal of fruitful private dialogue involving philosophical, theological, and teleological implications among presenters and attendees during our free time. The coordinators decision to eliminate any public religious content was understandable given their sincere commitment as a group to trace only the "science" evidence to its best and most logical conclusion"

"Every paper was scrutinized to be/remain science ... pure science."

So yes, Jorge, you are wrong, and you are lying. You know that religious beliefs were suppressed at that conference. You were there.

Roy

[lilpixieofterror]

As is usually the case, you (as well as most of your Atheistic/Humanistic and Theistic Evolutionist allies here on Tweb) are demonstrating ignorance and/or stupidity and/or dishonesty. My vote is on the last two. I will educate you (and your 'pals') ...

More of your drooling stupidity, eh Jorge? If they are my 'allies' can you explain why I have so many debates with atheist/humanist if they are my 'allies'? Also, can you explain why many of your fellow YEC's hold you at arms length and even join others in mocking you? The reality is that you've made YEC into the center of your faith instead of Christ and keep debating that if you're not a YEC; you can't be a 'true Christian'. Can you please find where any creed of the church agrees with your insane notion?

AiG or any other Biblical Creationist organization that you care to mention is OPENLY first and foremost about the Gospel of Jesus Christ and leading others that may be lost or confused towards Christ. Thus, the religious message and objective is never hidden but rather it is stated right up front with no deception. You may wish to read this paragraph again to be sure you got it.

There you are, making excuses for groups that you agree with while condemning others for doing the same thing. Too bad that AiG and these other groups make their construction workers sign something saying they are YEC's eh? I somehow doubt most places really care if their construction workers or janitors are YEC's or not. Why does AiG care so much? Dodging the question and calling me a bunch of names doesn't make the question disappear Jorge. Are you going to answer it already or is piles of insults all you got left?

The scientific aspect of these organizations (AiG, ICR, CMI, etc.) is meant to counter the opposition ... to show that the opposed views (to Biblical Creationism) are w-r-o-n-g ... to provide evidence and counter-arguments against the lies being promoted by the opposition.

Sorry Jorge, but AiG promotes plenty of unscientific ideas along with the rest of those groups you list. You keep calling it 'lies', but you fail to prove, over and over again, how it is lies or where these other groups are wrong. Do you think repeating yourself over and over again and just ignoring that you haven't actually demonstrated what you claim will make you look better?

Now compare that with NCSE and similar groups. They claim to be "all about science" ... "purely scientific" ... and similar LIES. The fact of the matter is that they have a RELIGIOUS agenda, specifically, to turn people away from the Word of God that is clearly written in the Christian Bible and towards some other religious doctrine be it Materialistic, a distortion of Biblical Christianity or some pseudo-Christian mumbo-jumbo.

I wasn't aware that Christendom hinged on the age of the earth. Are you reading the Jorge Authorized Version again, which you just add in things you want to hear and ignore anything and everything that proves you wrong? Go ahead Jorge, name for everybody what doctrine of the faith hinges on the age of the earth. I'm waiting or are you just going to call me a bunch of names again and pretend that is an answer?

In short, the NCSE and other similar groups and people DECEIVE, LIE and CHEAT and jackasses follow them as sheep to the slaughterhouse.

Irony at its finest. Can you show me where the NCSE requires its construction workers to sign letters saying they have to be evolutionist to build for them or do they not really care, as long as their a competent builders? Does having non YEC's build things for AiG somehow bring the entire project to its knees? Your hypocrisy is quite amusing to watch, in action. You make excuses for groups you agree with, while condemning groups who you disagree with. How amusing.

There, you are now educated on this point.
Of course, the lesson can only be as good as the student that receives it.

I've long been educated on your stupidity and inability to refute anything brought forth. YEC is the center of your faith, not Christ. And thus why disagreeing with YEC ideals, in your world view at least, is equal to disagreeing with God. Can you show where YEC should be place in importance that you place it in?