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  • Originally posted by phank View Post
    A form of insanity, however, which has been almost universally practiced here for years with no sign of ever letting up. I cannot recall a single thread where Jorge has made a claim he has backed up - and very few threads where he has not been asked to back it up, usually by multiple people.

    I think you're exactly correct. As I wrote back in the old days, the religious approach to knowledge is to SAY something is true, and saying it twice makes it twice as true. And since nothing else counts (certainly not evidence as normal people understand the term), Jorge is our exemplar of this method. And give him credit, he exercises it without exception.
    If lying were punishable by hanging, you'd be swinging in the wind long ago.

    Oh well ... que sera, sera.

    Jorge

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Jorge View Post
      Christ said: I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. John 10:9. Clearly He was using figurative language - e.g., Christ is not a literal door. Yet, those words do not convey their intended meaning unless the person reading them knows what a literal door is - it's function and what it provides. That is what takes place in Hosea 6:2. That is NOT what is going on in Genesis 1-2. Those that - in order to support their non-biblical beliefs - use the excuse that "figurative/allegorical/poetic language is used throughout Scripture", consistently fail to provide the full panorama.
      And this is where you are on track to Hypocrisy Central. The only way you could know this was not a reference to a physical door is to introduce evidence from outside the Bible and allowing your experience and knowledge of the world around you to influence your understanding of the Bible. Of course you previously described how you implemented a circular argument for how and when to use evidence outside the Bible.

      Originally posted by Jorge
      from here

      ...Setting aside those important questions, science (true science) is in my biblical exegesis/hermeneutic from the start and all throughout.

      I do not allow science-falsely-so-called -- the speculations and vain, agenda-loaded imaginations of men -- to dictate how to read God's Word. I constantly remind myself of the difference between operational science and historical science just as I always keep in mind that, when there is conflict or doubt, the vote is cast for God's Word, not for theories and worldly philosophies. In this my logic is irrefutable - it's a win-win strategy (maybe you can figure out why - left as an exercise).
      As I said before: In order to derive understanding of the Biblical passages you use an exegetical method that incorporates science, but in order to determine which science is allowed you only select that which is in harmony with the understanding of the Biblical passage.

      So much for a logically robust "time-and-tested" approach; it's easy to see now how you arrive at your interpretation of the Bible. But then coming from an individual who still cannot acknowledge he let his mouth run off before finding out whether scientific publications were actually refuting or supporting his position, I am not surprised to find you wallowing happily in mud.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jorge View Post
        Okay ... so? It happens in a literal (24-hour) day - the duration is another matter.
        Possibly you meant "starts" instead of "happens."
        The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

        [T]he truth Iím after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -ó Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Omega Red View Post
          And this is where you are on track to Hypocrisy Central. The only way you could know this was not a reference to a physical door is to introduce evidence from outside the Bible and allowing your experience and knowledge of the world around you to influence your understanding of the Bible. Of course you previously described how you implemented a circular argument for how and when to use evidence outside the Bible.



          As I said before: In order to derive understanding of the Biblical passages you use an exegetical method that incorporates science, but in order to determine which science is allowed you only select that which is in harmony with the understanding of the Biblical passage.

          So much for a logically robust "time-and-tested" approach; it's easy to see now how you arrive at your interpretation of the Bible. But then coming from an individual who still cannot acknowledge he let his mouth run off before finding out whether scientific publications were actually refuting or supporting his position, I am not surprised to find you wallowing happily in mud.
          I guess an apt comment is this: The Christian uses, among other things, science to understand the Bible. The atheist uses his scientific knowledge to refute the Bible.
          The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

          [T]he truth Iím after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -ó Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
            I guess an apt comment is this: The Christian uses, among other things, science to understand the Bible. The atheist uses his scientific knowledge to refute the Bible.
            Can't speak for other Christians
            ...but if I'm having difficulties understanding Bible, I have Matthew Henry and John Gill and Adam Clarke and Jamieson, Faucet, Brown and Darby ' s Synopsis and Wesley ' s Explanatory Notes and the Scofield Reference Notes in my Bible.

            ....why would a Christian need some lost person to explain Scripture?
            To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jordanriver View Post
              ....why would a Christian need some lost person to explain Scripture?
              If you don't mean Jorge, I don't understand that.
              The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

              [T]he truth Iím after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -ó Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

              Comment


              • Originally posted by jordanriver View Post
                Can't speak for other Christians
                ...but if I'm having difficulties understanding Bible, I have Matthew Henry and John Gill and Adam Clarke and Jamieson, Faucet, Brown and Darby ' s Synopsis and Wesley ' s Explanatory Notes and the Scofield Reference Notes in my Bible.

                ....why would a Christian need some lost person to explain Scripture?
                Well, because when scripture references nature, and if you believe nature is Creation, then you have to consider Creation itself in your interpretation.

                But of course from my experience "discussing" issues with you, you don't care about physical reality. Just "history" --- or history as you interpret your Illustrated Chillens' Bahbel.

                A sad, sad story indeed...

                K54

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                  If you don't mean Jorge, I don't understand that.
                  I don't understand your reply.

                  Maybe you are not familiar with term "lost" from Bible.

                  It is about people who are not "saved" (Born-again) Christians.

                  ...example: Bible verse that says "If our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost"
                  Last edited by jordanriver; 10-07-2014, 01:51 AM.
                  To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                    If you don't mean Jorge, I don't understand that.
                    Sorry to see that you've broken into the vodka cabinet again.

                    Jorge

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by jordanriver View Post
                      I don't understand your reply.

                      Your puzzlement is understandable. My previous post 'explains' the source of his reply.

                      Jorge

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by jordanriver View Post
                        I don't understand your reply.

                        Maybe you are not familiar with term "lost" from Bible.

                        It is about people who are not "saved" (Born-again) Christians.

                        ...example: Bible verse that says "If our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost"
                        So, you're a Gnostic now?

                        Explanations of obvious phenomena - ya know like Plate Tectonics and that sort of jazz - aren't valid if they are given by the "Lost".

                        Whew! Lemme know what church you attend so I can avoid it like the plague.

                        Ah, don't bother -- I'll be able to detect it by the stench of their heretical ignorance.

                        K54

                        Comment

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