Derail from "Slaughter in Paris."

[robrecht]

The topic of the thread is the reason, but as I said, 'go for all nine yards.' Blood and gore every where on the hands and feet of all since humans were first human.

The topic of the thread is about religion as a cause of violence in history and seer's counter with violence committed by atheistic regimes. You've given no valid reason why this topic must be limited to European history, European religions, and European atheistic regimes.

[shunyadragon]

The topic of the thread is about religion as a cause of violence in history and seer's counter with violence committed by atheistic regimes. You've given no valid reason why this topic must be limited to European history, European religions, and European atheistic regimes.

I said, 'If you wish go for it 'all nine yards.' and all the bloody brutal pogroms, violence against those that are different, and ethnic cleansing in history since humans were first human. I gave my reason and it is valid.

[robrecht]

I said, 'If you wish go for it 'all nine yards.' and all the bloody brutal pogroms, violence against those that are different, and ethnic cleansing in history since humans were first human. I gave my reason and it is valid.

Your reason seems to be that you want the thread to be limited in such a way that you need not respond to all of the examples of atheistic regimes brought forward.

[shunyadragon]

Your reason seems to be that you want the thread to be limited in such a way that you need not respond to all of the examples of atheistic regimes brought forward.

Regardless of who was responsible for this and that and the other bloody pogrom or ethnic cleansing, I will address the issues regarding Jewish, Christian, and Islamic history which is relevant to the discussion of the conflicts today in Europe and the Middle East, which seer and you appear to be uncomfortable with.

[seer]

Regardless of who was responsible for this and that and the other bloody pogrom or ethnic cleansing, I will address the issues regarding Jewish, Christian, and Islamic history which is relevant to the discussion, which seer and you appear to be uncomfortable with.

I'm not uncomfortable with anything. When men murder in the name of Christ the are not following the teachings or example of Christ. When atheists slaughter, well, there is no governing set of ethics for atheists so they get to make up their moral code as they go along.

[robrecht]

Regardless of who was responsible for this and that and the other bloody pogrom or ethnic cleansing, I will address the issues regarding Jewish, Christian, and Islamic history which is relevant to the discussion of the conflicts today in Europe and the Middle East, which seer and you appear to be uncomfortable with.

I am not uncomfortable with your choosing to restrict yourself to a limited perspective that is unable to address the larger question posed by this thread.

[shunyadragon]

I'm not uncomfortable with anything. When men murder in the name of Christ the are not following the teachings or example of Christ. When atheists slaughter, well, there is no governing set of ethics for atheists so they get to make up their moral code as they go along.

This is basically a very egocentric biased view, like robrecht, of your own religious beliefs and agenda, and side stepping some very basic issues of the history of religions, morals, ethics, and human nature.

This is a classic dodge and does not work, because there is some very basic justification of the pogroms, and ethnic cleansing in scripture and the writings of the revered leaders of Christianity.

[seer]

This is basically a very egocentric biased view, like seer, of your own religious beliefs and agenda, and side stepping some very basic issues of the history of religions, morals, ethics, and human nature.

This is a classic dodge and does not work, because there is some very basic justification of the pogroms, and ethnic cleansing in scripture and the writings of the revered leaders of Christianity.

Really Shuny? What specific teaching of Christ were they following? The love your neighbor part? The love your enemy part? How did the early Christians act? How did Christ act? We are Christian, not Old Testament Jews under the Mosaic code.

[shunyadragon]

Really Shuny? What specific teaching of Christ were they following? The love your neighbor part? The love your enemy part? How did the early Christians act? How did Christ act? We are Christian, not Old Testament Jews under the Mosaic code.

[seer]

What is your point Shuny? Even if these are enemies of the Gospel, and our enemies, which they are, Christ never commanded us to harm them, just the opposite. And I don't care what Luther said, I'm not a follower of Luther, but of Christ.

[shunyadragon]

What is your point Shuny? Even if these are enemies of the Gospel, and our enemies, which they are, Christ never commanded us to harm them, just the opposite. And I don't care what Luther said, I'm not a follower of Luther, but of Christ.

Read again seer, the citation from Luther reflects these citations from the Bible. These citations definitely do inspire, violence, pogroms and ethnic cleansing of Jews over the centuries by Christians and do them great harm when Jews are considered 'enemies of the gospel,' and 'Christ Killers.'

[seer]

Read again seer, the citation from Luther reflects these citations from the Bible. These citations definitely do inspire, violence, pogroms and ethnic cleansing of Jews over the centuries by Christians and do them great harm when Jews are considered 'enemies of the gospel,' and 'Christ Killers.'

That is a lie, did Christ or the early Christians harm any Jews? Even for the first four or five hundred years, or longer? The fact is, you are an enemy of the Gospel and God, but that does not give me the right to harm you. And yes, the Jewish leaders of that time were instrumental in the killing of Christ, but so were my people - the Italians. And the Biblical fact is that we all put Christ on the cross because of our sin.

[The Thinker]

Can you show that they killed in the name of atheism, or was it because of some other goal, ideology, or objective?

[The Thinker]

That is a lie, did Christ or the early Christians harm any Jews? Even for the first four or five hundred years, or longer? The fact is, you are an enemy of the Gospel and God, but that does not give me the right to harm you. And yes, the Jewish leaders of that time were instrumental in the killing of Christ, but so were my people - the Italians. And the Biblical fact is that we all put Christ on the cross because of our sin.

Define "harm".

[shunyadragon]

That is a lie, did Christ or the early Christians harm any Jews? Even for the first four or five hundred years, or longer? The fact is, you are an enemy of the Gospel and God, but that does not give me the right to harm you. And yes, the Jewish leaders of that time were instrumental in the killing of Christ, but so were my people - the Italians. And the Biblical fact is that we all put Christ on the cross because of our sin.

You admonished several times before for accusing people of lying. Your post will be reported. You are misinformed as to the extent of the persecution of the Jews in early Christianity.

Source: http://jdstone.org/cr/files/antisemitisminthenewtestament_1.html

Persecution would cease if the person converted to Christianity.

306: The church Synod of Elvira banned marriages, sexual intercourse and community contacts between Christians and Jews. 3,4

315: Constantine published the Edict of Milan which extended religious tolerance to Christians. Jews lost many rights with this edict. They were no longer permitted to live in Jerusalem, or to proselytize.

325: The Council of Nicea decided to separate the celebration of Easter from the Jewish Passover. They stated: "For it is unbecoming beyond measure that on this holiest of festivals we should follow the customs of the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people...We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews...our worship follows a...more convenient course...we desire dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the Jews...How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are almost certainly blinded."

337: Christian Emperor Constantius created a law which made the marriage of a Jewish man to a Christian punishable by death.

339: Converting to Judaism became a criminal offense.

343-381: The Laodicean Synod approved Cannon XXXVIII: "It is not lawful [for Christians] to receive unleavened bread from the Jews, nor to be partakers of their impiety." 5

367 - 376: St. Hilary of Poitiers referred to Jews as a perverse people who God has cursed forever. St. Ephroem refers to synagogues as brothels.

379-395: Emperor Theodosius the Great permitted the destruction of synagogues if it served a religious purpose. Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire at this time.

380: The bishop of Milan was responsible for the burning of a synagogue; he referred to it as "an act pleasing to God."

415: The Bishop of Alexandria, St. Cyril, expelled the Jews from that Egyptian city.

415: St. Augustine wrote "The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot, who sells the Lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus."

418: St. Jerome, who created the Vulgate translation of the Bible wrote of a synagogue: "If you call it a brothel, a den of vice, the Devil's refuge, Satan's fortress, a place to deprave the soul, an abyss of every conceivable disaster or whatever you will, you are still saying less than it deserves."

489 - 519: Christian mobs destroyed the synagogues in Antioch, Daphne (near Antioch) and Ravenna.

528: Emperor Justinian (527-564) passed the Justinian Code. It prohibited Jews from building synagogues, reading the Bible in Hebrew, assemble in public, celebrate Passover before Easter, and testify against Christians in court. 3

535: The "Synod of Claremont decreed that Jews could not hold public office or have authority over Christians." 3

538: The 3rd and 4th Councils of Orleans prohibited Jews from appearing in public during the Easter season. Canon XXX decreed that "From the Thursday before Easter for four days, Jews may not appear in the company of Christians." 5 Marriages between Christians and Jews were prohibited. Christians were prohibited from converting to Judaism. 4

561: The bishop of Uzes expelled Jews from his diocese in France.

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