God a Trinity.

[Tassman]

The joke would be the notion that you'd actually be able to defend your assertion that the two doctrines are incoherent/contradictory.

Jesus cannot be simultaneously FULLY Man AND FULLY God, as per the Hypostatic Union. Each cancels the other out. The same argument applies to the Trinity. .

[Abu Njoroge]

You argued:

Nowhere does God do any of that apart from the Son of God. Do you think you know an exception?

when he wrestles with Jacob. most claim it to be an angel but that is not what the bible or Jacob says.Genesis 22v30.

[Abu Njoroge]

Some times to me the bible leaves more questions than answers. When I talk to most ministers about some of this I usually get absurd answers, or told not to question God,To have faith,My answers will be given when I get to heaven. One question I wonder about is when Jesus leaves in the new testament he rises up in the air. I question this because at this time in history many believed heaven was up there and hell was down below. in a physical sense that is absurd. I dont take all the bible literaly, I believe there is spiritual truth in the bible,The Christ existed, and that the prophets of the bible are probably not fictional.Even the stories that I find hard to believe I think have something to teach.

[seer]

Jesus cannot be simultaneously FULLY Man AND FULLY God, as per the Hypostatic Union. Each cancels the other out. The same argument applies to the Trinity. .

Really? Why couldn't his body be fully human and His spirit fully divine? That would be simple dualism.

[Sparko]

A couple things here. A cause is always temporal or it does not cause anything in time.

wrong. I just gave you an example of a cause that was not temporal.

The table and stack which is on the table being around for eternity would co-eternal with God and yet not be God.

so? It was an example. God is a cause of everything. Yet he is not temporal. He is eternal. That is what an uncaused cause IS.

The uncaused Cause would both be eternal being co-eternal with God being uncaused and be temporal and finite being a cause.

are you just stringing "cause and uncaused" together with "eternal and temporal" over and over thinking you are actually writing a coherent sentence? Because you are not. Here let me try. "The uncaused cause is temporal and eternal because it caused the uncaused cause to cause the temporal eternal cause to be caused." - that makes as much sense as your sentence just did.

The Logos was both with God (John 1:1, 2) and was God too (John 1:1, 3). Was the cause of all caused things (John 1:3). All caused things are temporal are they not? And a Cause in time is temporal too.

God also caused heaven and the angels which are not temporal because he caused them before he created time. And since he created time, he had to do it non-temporally since it didn't exist when he caused it. are you getting it yet?

God walking in the garden was being temporal and finite. Yet being God (YHWH) is eternal and infinite. Both. We identify as the Son of God (John 1:18) who appears to Adam and Eve.

God can enter time and space since he created it in the first place, and after all, he is the Almighty, All Powerful God. Who can do anything he wants to. because he is God.

[Sparko]

Jesus cannot be simultaneously FULLY Man AND FULLY God, as per the Hypostatic Union. Each cancels the other out. The same argument applies to the Trinity. .

How do they cancel each other out? They are two different natures. You are fully human and fully australian. You can be both because they are not the same substance.

[37818]

Jesus cannot be simultaneously FULLY Man AND FULLY God, as per the Hypostatic Union. Each cancels the other out. The same argument applies to the Trinity. .

Not necessarily. God is Spirit.

Consider a husband and a wife. They are two different persons. Two different physical bodies. They are said to be one in marriage.

The three Persons who are the One God are more One than the human marriage. They have no beginning they are the one uncaused Existence. From which all caused existence comes.

[37818]

when he wrestles with Jacob. most claim it to be an angel but that is not what the bible or Jacob says.Genesis 22v30.

Right, because it was the preincarnate Christ (John 1:18).

[tabibito]

Jesus cannot be simultaneously FULLY Man AND FULLY God, as per the Hypostatic Union. Each cancels the other out. The same argument applies to the Trinity. .

Support for the trinity can be found in scripture. And it is not in the least difficult to understand.

[Sparko]

Support for the trinity can be found in scripture. And it is not in the least difficult to understand.

You are talking to Tassman, who will twist anything you say and misunderstand you on purpose just to feel like he is scoring points.

[37818]

wrong. I just gave you an example of a cause that was not temporal.

It was finite and co-eternal with God who is infinite.

so? It was an example. God is a cause of everything. Yet he is not temporal. He is eternal. That is what an uncaused cause IS.

Again, uncaused is eternal. All causes are finite and temporal. You proposed a cause which was eternal and of a finite thing. Apart from the Logos(John 1:3) what cause is eternal? Typically all causes are finite and temporal. The universe is finite and temporal only needing a finite and temporal cause. It so happens to be caused by the one who was both with God and was God. Typically one who is with someone is not the same person whom one is with. Yet the Logos was with God and was God too. Being another Person.

are you just stringing "cause and uncaused" together with "eternal and temporal" over and over thinking you are actually writing a coherent sentence?

Is saying three persons, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one God over and over coherent?

Ephesians 4:6,
One God and Father . . .

1 Corinthians 8:6,
. . . [there is but] one God, the Father, . . .

Because you are not. Here let me try. "The uncaused cause is temporal and eternal because it caused the uncaused cause to cause the temporal eternal cause to be caused." - that makes as much sense as your sentence just did.

You are using deliberate gibberish.

Do you or do you not accept the concept of an "uncaused Cause?"

Do you understand an uncaused Existence is not the same thing a an uncaused Cause?

So do you understand existence and cause are two different things?

Do you understand a cause is contingent on existence?

A finite temporal effect only requires a finite and temporal cause. Cause and effect.

What are common points where we agree? The points of disagreement need to be set side by side.

God also caused heaven and the angels which are not temporal because he caused them before he created time. And since he created time, he had to do it non-temporally since it didn't exist when he caused it. are you getting it yet?

Only by way of the Logos as God (John 1:3).

God can enter time and space since he created it in the first place, and after all, he is the Almighty, All Powerful God. Who can do anything he wants to. because he is God.

Again, only by way of the Son of God.

[Sparko]

I give up 31818,

It is impossible to reason with you because you lack the basic grasp of concepts like "cause" and "temporal" and "eternal" or even "nature"

[37818]

I give up 31818,

It is impossible to reason with you because you lack the basic grasp of concepts like "cause" and "temporal" and "eternal" or even "nature"

What meanings of those words am I using differently?

Cause - that which produces an effect.
Temporal - of time, pertaining to time, limited by time.
Eternal - of infinite duration, everlasting.
Nature - innate or essential qualities of a thing; sort.

Why do you want to make what should be simple hard?

Where do we agree? What point do we disagree? Set the two differing views side by side.

[Tassman]

How do they cancel each other out? They are two different natures. You are fully human and fully australian. You can be both because they are not the same substance.

Jesus was fully man and fully Galilean too, but that has nothing to do with two different natures. He was either fully God or he was fully Man, he can't be both simultaneously.

[JonathanL]

Jesus was fully man and fully Galilean too, but that has nothing to do with two different natures. He was either fully God or he was fully Man, he can't be both simultaneously.

You've asserted this repeatedly, but I've yet to see an explanation to why it isn't possible.