Originally posted by Chrawnus
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Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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God a Trinity.
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Some times to me the bible leaves more questions than answers. When I talk to most ministers about some of this I usually get absurd answers, or told not to question God,To have faith,My answers will be given when I get to heaven. One question I wonder about is when Jesus leaves in the new testament he rises up in the air. I question this because at this time in history many believed heaven was up there and hell was down below. in a physical sense that is absurd. I dont take all the bible literaly, I believe there is spiritual truth in the bible,The Christ existed, and that the prophets of the bible are probably not fictional.Even the stories that I find hard to believe I think have something to teach.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostJesus cannot be simultaneously FULLY Man AND FULLY God, as per the Hypostatic Union. Each cancels the other out. The same argument applies to the Trinity. .Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostA couple things here. A cause is always temporal or it does not cause anything in time.
The table and stack which is on the table being around for eternity would co-eternal with God and yet not be God.
The uncaused Cause would both be eternal being co-eternal with God being uncaused and be temporal and finite being a cause.
The Logos was both with God (John 1:1, 2) and was God too (John 1:1, 3). Was the cause of all caused things (John 1:3). All caused things are temporal are they not? And a Cause in time is temporal too.
God walking in the garden was being temporal and finite. Yet being God (YHWH) is eternal and infinite. Both. We identify as the Son of God (John 1:18) who appears to Adam and Eve.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostJesus cannot be simultaneously FULLY Man AND FULLY God, as per the Hypostatic Union. Each cancels the other out. The same argument applies to the Trinity. .
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostJesus cannot be simultaneously FULLY Man AND FULLY God, as per the Hypostatic Union. Each cancels the other out. The same argument applies to the Trinity. .
Consider a husband and a wife. They are two different persons. Two different physical bodies. They are said to be one in marriage.
The three Persons who are the One God are more One than the human marriage. They have no beginning they are the one uncaused Existence. From which all caused existence comes.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Abu Njoroge View Postwhen he wrestles with Jacob. most claim it to be an angel but that is not what the bible or Jacob says.Genesis 22v30.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostJesus cannot be simultaneously FULLY Man AND FULLY God, as per the Hypostatic Union. Each cancels the other out. The same argument applies to the Trinity. .1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postwrong. I just gave you an example of a cause that was not temporal.
so? It was an example. God is a cause of everything. Yet he is not temporal. He is eternal. That is what an uncaused cause IS.
are you just stringing "cause and uncaused" together with "eternal and temporal" over and over thinking you are actually writing a coherent sentence?
Ephesians 4:6,
One God and Father . . .
1 Corinthians 8:6,
. . . [there is but] one God, the Father, . . .
Because you are not. Here let me try. "The uncaused cause is temporal and eternal because it caused the uncaused cause to cause the temporal eternal cause to be caused." - that makes as much sense as your sentence just did.
Do you or do you not accept the concept of an "uncaused Cause?"
Do you understand an uncaused Existence is not the same thing a an uncaused Cause?
So do you understand existence and cause are two different things?
Do you understand a cause is contingent on existence?
A finite temporal effect only requires a finite and temporal cause. Cause and effect.
What are common points where we agree? The points of disagreement need to be set side by side.
God also caused heaven and the angels which are not temporal because he caused them before he created time. And since he created time, he had to do it non-temporally since it didn't exist when he caused it. are you getting it yet?
God can enter time and space since he created it in the first place, and after all, he is the Almighty, All Powerful God. Who can do anything he wants to. because he is God.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI give up 31818,
It is impossible to reason with you because you lack the basic grasp of concepts like "cause" and "temporal" and "eternal" or even "nature"
Cause - that which produces an effect.
Temporal - of time, pertaining to time, limited by time.
Eternal - of infinite duration, everlasting.
Nature - innate or essential qualities of a thing; sort.
Why do you want to make what should be simple hard?
Where do we agree? What point do we disagree? Set the two differing views side by side.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostHow do they cancel each other out? They are two different natures. You are fully human and fully australian. You can be both because they are not the same substance.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostJesus was fully man and fully Galilean too, but that has nothing to do with two different natures. He was either fully God or he was fully Man, he can't be both simultaneously.
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