Christian Necrophobes

[JimL]

Sure everyone wants to live. But to a Christian, death is more like immigrating to a better country where you won't see your friends and loved ones for a while, till they come over and join you. You are reluctant to go, but you know that a better life awaits you.

And the reason we use doctors and I am seeking treatment is that to Christians, life, especially human life (including our own) is precious and not to be squandered or tossed away. That is why Christians think suicide is wrong. So yes, I am seeking treatment. But if I don't get the treatment and die, I am not worried or scared.

But these are contradictory statements Sparko. If dying is nothing more than going to a better place, then why would christians consider earthly life to be so precious and be reluctant to go to this better place? I think the more honest reason for this reluctance of christians to die is that, and this is a fact, they just don't know for sure if what they have been taught to believe is true.

Sure some atheists are stubborn enough to not believe in God on their deathbeds, but I think a majority will try to hedge their bets at that last minute and pray to God. And I think the more blusterous they are about being atheist now, the more they actually have doubts and want to convince themselves more than anyone else. Like Tassman. At least you admit you are an agnostic. That's a good start.

Not believing has nothing to do with being stubborn, not believing has to do with being honest with oneself. Also, I think that even if there were a god, it would need be a good god in order for me to worship him, and the biblical god is certainly not what I would call good. The way I look at it is like this, if there is a god that is good, or if there is no god at all, then in either case there is nothing for anyone to fear of death.

[whag]

How do you know this?

I think the more appropriate question is "what does 'dying successfully' even mean?"

How do you know that non-Christians are afraid of death because they fear being judged for not converting to a specific religion?

[whag]

This part intrigues me. If we are simply to "let the infirmity God brought take its natural course", then why did Jesus give sight to the man born blind, heal the man with the palsy, the woman with the issue of blood, Peter and John heal the man with the crippled feet.....

A more appropriate question would be "why didn't Jesus send them to a physician?" given that the physician's work is no less an expression of divine intervention in your view.

We believe human life is precious. Even the unborn.

Not really. Most conservative Christians are opposed to universal health care, meaning that you believe only some human life is precious.

I'm at MD Anderson in Houston right now with my wife for a followup for her breast cancer. Do you believe we should have "simply accepted" the fact that she would die without intervention?

No. I was making the inverse point that one can't assume all non-Christians are fearful of a judgment just because all people share an eons-old survival drive. That's as baseless as presuming Sparko and your wife fear death because they take extreme measures to survive.

Also, from the lobby where I'm posting, I can see numerous hospitals around me founded by religious institutions. Why? Because they think human life is precious.

I agree that some hospitals are religious and think that life is precious.

[KingsGambit]

That doesn't even remotely answer my question.

[Darth Executor]

The worst thing about Christian salvation is that it prevents the saved seeing the unsaved as equal. It is a type of apartheid tolerated by insiders because they take the view that anyone can join.

I don't see the problem. They're not equal.

[Jichard]

lol, leave it to liberals to pathologize sanity and sanitize dysfunction. If you're afraid to die then beliefs that allow you to continue functioning normally are both entirely normal and an useful evolutionary trait.

First, please don't make up false claims about evolutionary biology.

Second, theistic beliefs don't keep one from dying.

Between your and Jichard's posts I'm not the least bit surprised anymore that atheism is heavily dysgenic.

Don't make up false claims.

[Jichard]

That doesn't really explain why it's shallow, though the explanation itself is, ironically, shallow.

No, it actually does explain it. It's not my fault if you can't recognize shallow, childlike wishful thinking for what it is.

There sure are a lot of little kids who look like adults running around.

^^^ That's shallow.

Let me know when you have something worthwhile to say, as opposed to shallow silliness.

[Tassman]

Yep. sure sounds like you are trying to convince yourself there is no God, Tassman. Good luck with that.

How does this petty sneer address what I said? You asserted, without any substantive evidence, that

[Tassman]

Well seeing how Adam and Eve died and they were the first humans this is true by all standards.

Scientifically impossible. To argue this is to wantonly and deliberately spread lies.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...ical-existence

[whag]

That is not a problem for me, mostly because you don't understand what I'm saying. I was not talking about Cromags/Neandethals, I was talking about Homo Sapiens. I am leaning towards Homo Sapiens, as a biological organism, having evolved organically from more primitive hominids, and Adam and Eve being specially created (either directly from dirt or by modifying existing Sapiens stock).

"directly from dirt"? What are you talking about?

There is little (and possibly no) biological difference between the two

There was little biological difference between Neanderthals and CroMags. CroMags bred with Neanderthals (you have Neanderthal DNA). Your distinguishing CroMags' "stock" from modern humam beings is weird and unnecessary. They WERE anatomically modern.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon

but there is a huge spiritual difference (namely, that the latter have souls while the former did not, a divison that I suspect exists to this day). In other words, I am proposing that there are two types of Sapiens, biologically indistinguishable (at least for now), one without souls and descended from the animal kingdom and one with souls, descended from specially created Adam and Eve.

No such modern hominids existed that didn't exhibit the characteristics of human beings with "souls." You must present evidence of anatomically modern human beings who *didn't* have culture, cave art, sophisticated blade production skills, and animistic tendencies. Good luck with that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_religion

Again, there is no hard delineation between hominids with and without "souls." The line is significantly blurred between 200,000 and 30,000 y.a. when Neanderthals went extinct and fertility statues were being carved.

[Sparko]

Your brain died long ago. It is self-evident.

[Roy]

Scientifically impossible. To argue this is to wantonly and deliberately spread lies.

It's not a lie if he actually believes it, only a falsehood.

[Sparko]

But these are contradictory statements Sparko. If dying is nothing more than going to a better place, then why would christians consider earthly life to be so precious and be reluctant to go to this better place? I think the more honest reason for this reluctance of christians to die is that, and this is a fact, they just don't know for sure if what they have been taught to believe is true.



Not believing has nothing to do with being stubborn, not believing has to do with being honest with oneself. Also, I think that even if there were a god, it would need be a good god in order for me to worship him, and the biblical god is certainly not what I would call good. The way I look at it is like this, if there is a god that is good, or if there is no god at all, then in either case there is nothing for anyone to fear of death.

The problem is not with God being good, it is with us being bad. That is why we need Jesus.

[firstfloor]

That doesn't even remotely answer my question.

you I know it. You might actually be asking how I would convince you but I would really have to know, in that case, what evidence would convince you on which specific issue.

[firstfloor]

Your brain died long ago. It is self-evident.