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Christian Objections to Serving Same Sex Couples are Disingenuous

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  • Christian Objections to Serving Same Sex Couples are Disingenuous

    Christians don't have a religious imperative to discriminate against same sex couples in cases like baking wedding cakes. If anything, their religious imperative is to bake two such cakes if they're feeling unjustly compelled to to make the first one (going the extra mile).

    Sure, some Christians believe they have a religious imperative, but only because they're going along uncritically with what the political hawks are telling them they must oppose. It's not just anti-LGBT but anti-Christ to be refusing service like this. I doubt the Biblical Jesus would accept such Christians as being his followers.

    I wish ya'll would either be better Christians or stop using Christianity as an excuse for social injustice. This lukewarm righteous exclusion stuff is distasteful from all angles.

  • #2
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    Stephen R. Donaldson

    Comment


    • #3
      There are ethical issues to discuss, to be sure. (Like if you're a Wal-Mart cashier and somebody you know is an alcoholic comes through your line with beer. Since you're a cashier and not the store owner, I would say refusing wouldn't do anything but get you fired and cause him to buy it from another cashier.) But I think there's a difference between making a sale and being responsible for what somebody does with what they buy, and actively participating in a ceremony you disagree with.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seasanctuary View Post
        Christians don't have a religious imperative to discriminate against same sex couples in cases like baking wedding cakes. If anything, their religious imperative is to bake two such cakes if they're feeling unjustly compelled to to make the first one (going the extra mile).

        Sure, some Christians believe they have a religious imperative, but only because they're going along uncritically with what the political hawks are telling them they must oppose. It's not just anti-LGBT but anti-Christ to be refusing service like this. I doubt the Biblical Jesus would accept such Christians as being his followers.

        I wish ya'll would either be better Christians or stop using Christianity as an excuse for social injustice. This lukewarm righteous exclusion stuff is distasteful from all angles.
        This is a good way to start a discussion with people who disagree with you.
        I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by seasanctuary View Post
          Christians don't have a religious imperative to discriminate against same sex couples in cases like baking wedding cakes. If anything, their religious imperative is to bake two such cakes if they're feeling unjustly compelled to to make the first one (going the extra mile).

          Sure, some Christians believe they have a religious imperative, but only because they're going along uncritically with what the political hawks are telling them they must oppose. It's not just anti-LGBT but anti-Christ to be refusing service like this. I doubt the Biblical Jesus would accept such Christians as being his followers.

          I wish ya'll would either be better Christians or stop using Christianity as an excuse for social injustice. This lukewarm righteous exclusion stuff is distasteful from all angles.
          M8,

          If we're baking a cake for them, we're condoning homosexuality and homosexual marriage. That isn't something Christians can do.
          -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
          Sir James Jeans

          -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
          Sir Isaac Newton

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
            If we're baking a cake for them, we're condoning homosexuality and homosexual marriage.
            No, you're not. You would just be doing your job, not expressing your personal feelings.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by seasanctuary View Post
              Christians don't have a religious imperative to discriminate against same sex couples in cases like baking wedding cakes. If anything, their religious imperative is to bake two such cakes if they're feeling unjustly compelled to to make the first one (going the extra mile).

              Sure, some Christians believe they have a religious imperative, but only because they're going along uncritically with what the political hawks are telling them they must oppose. It's not just anti-LGBT but anti-Christ to be refusing service like this. I doubt the Biblical Jesus would accept such Christians as being his followers.

              I wish ya'll would either be better Christians or stop using Christianity as an excuse for social injustice. This lukewarm righteous exclusion stuff is distasteful from all angles.
              The fact is Sea, I suppose there would be many Christians willing to bake a cake for a gay couple's wedding, and others not. It is a question of conscience. Christians are not monolithic on this subject. This Easter I will be having dinner with a Lesbian couple - and Jan and Susan, they would never even think of taking a Christian baker to the bar because they have a very robust live and let live attitude. What people like me object to is the idea that you could be fined, jailed or put out of business for following your deeply held religious sensibilities. And that is just wrong, it violates the very foundations of this Republic, like the free exercise of religion and the freedom of assembly. Like one commenter said, the left has won the gay marriage debate now they are going around shooting the stragglers.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Let's see... Christians who disagree are:

                disingenuous
                going along uncritically with the political hawks
                anti-Christ
                likely unacceptable as followers to the Biblical Jesus
                bad Christians
                using Christianity as an excuse for social injustice
                lukewarm

                But why stop there? There's so much else you could call us, like homophobes, transphobes, bigots, sexists, racists, etc. The list is endless.
                I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sea,
                  The issue is not with whether Christians should serve Gays, but whether anyone has the right to force a business to participate in their activity. It is not about the person, it is about their activity.

                  Should a Muslim be able to force a Gay bakery to make a cake celebrating beheading homosexuals? Of course not.

                  The bible says we are to love our neighbors and our enemies, and to do good to our enemies. But it never says to share in the sin of others. Jesus hung out with prostitutes and other sinners, but he never participated in their sins. In fact he advised them to repent and stop sinning.


                  1 Tim 5:22 ...do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.

                  So selling a generic cake (or a birthday cake, or some other non-sexual cake) to a gay person is OK, sharing and condoning their celebration of their homosexual lifestyle is not.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Sea,
                    The issue is not with whether Christians should serve Gays, but whether anyone has the right to force a business to participate in their activity. It is not about the person, it is about their activity.

                    Should a Muslim be able to force a Gay bakery to make a cake celebrating beheading homosexuals? Of course not.

                    The bible says we are to love our neighbors and our enemies, and to do good to our enemies. But it never says to share in the sin of others. Jesus hung out with prostitutes and other sinners, but he never participated in their sins. In fact he advised them to repent and stop sinning.


                    1 Tim 5:22 ...do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.

                    So selling a generic cake (or a birthday cake, or some other non-sexual cake) to a gay person is OK, sharing and condoning their celebration of their homosexual lifestyle is not.
                    ^^
                    This.
                    -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
                    Sir James Jeans

                    -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
                    Sir Isaac Newton

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      The bible says we are to love our neighbors and our enemies, and to do good to our enemies. But it never says to share in the sin of others.
                      I can fully accept that argument. In that sense, refusing to bake an ordinary cake for a homosexual person would be uncool, since there would be no contribution to the homosexual lifestyle. Baking a wedding cake for a homosexual pair, on the other hand, would be participating in the activity that the baker considers to be sinful. Consequently, I think the baker should be allowed to refuse to provide the wedding cake. (And I think that those offended by the baker's actions should be free to express their opinions, as long as they don't take it too far.)
                      Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                        I can fully accept that argument. In that sense, refusing to bake an ordinary cake for a homosexual person would be uncool, since there would be no contribution to the homosexual lifestyle. Baking a wedding cake for a homosexual pair, on the other hand, would be participating in the activity that the baker considers to be sinful. Consequently, I think the baker should be allowed to refuse to provide the wedding cake. (And I think that those offended by the baker's actions should be free to express their opinions, as long as they don't take it too far.)
                        That does it... we need to stop attracting reasonable non-Christians
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          The issue is not with whether Christians should serve Gays, but whether anyone has the right to force a business to participate in their activity. It is not about the person, it is about their activity.
                          That's not in line with New Testament teachings about purity and conscience (render unto caesar, food sacrificed to idols, basically all of the anti-Pharisee stuff). It's a contemporary choice to act like providing a standard service that is fine in itself is an expression of personal approval of however others choose to use it. This will be clear once it's illegal to discriminate everywhere and the Christians in these jobs realize that they don't have to find another field in order to distinguish between professionalism and personal religious beliefs.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by seasanctuary View Post
                            That's not in line with New Testament teachings about purity and conscience (render unto caesar, food sacrificed to idols, basically all of the anti-Pharisee stuff). It's a contemporary choice to act like providing a standard service that is fine in itself is an expression of personal approval of however others choose to use it. This will be clear once it's illegal to discriminate everywhere and the Christians in these jobs realize that they don't have to find another field in order to distinguish between professionalism and personal religious beliefs.
                            Where in the New Testament does it tell Christians to participate in sin?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                              I can fully accept that argument. In that sense, refusing to bake an ordinary cake for a homosexual person would be uncool, since there would be no contribution to the homosexual lifestyle. Baking a wedding cake for a homosexual pair, on the other hand, would be participating in the activity that the baker considers to be sinful. Consequently, I think the baker should be allowed to refuse to provide the wedding cake. (And I think that those offended by the baker's actions should be free to express their opinions, as long as they don't take it too far.)
                              You're officially welcomed to my list of most* reasonable non-believers.

                              *It's better than it sounds, but it's not perfect.

                              Comment

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