Matthew 12:40 an idiom?

[rstrats]

Someone new looking in may know of some writing.

[rstrats]

Perhaps a further rewording of the OP will make it a bit more clear: Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day of the week crucifixion folks, they frequently assert that it is using common Jewish idiomatic language. I wonder if anyone knows of any writing that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights? If it is using common idiomatic language, there ought to be examples of that usage in order to be able to make that assertion.

[rstrats]

Jedidiah,
re: "rstrats, I believe you have a PM that needs attention."

It has been attended to.

[Faber]

Perhaps a further rewording of the OP will make it a bit more clear: Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day of the week crucifixion folks, they frequently assert that it is using common Jewish idiomatic language. I wonder if anyone knows of any writing that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights? If it is using common idiomatic language, there ought to be examples of that usage in order to be able to make that assertion.

Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body. (John 2:18-21)

(2) The second mention of His crucifixion and resurrection is found in all three of the Synoptic Gospels. Jesus asked His disciples who the people say He is. John the Baptist, maybe Elijah, maybe another prophet. Peter confesses that He is the Christ of God.

He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God. And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing; Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day. (Luke 9:20-22; see also Matthew 16:21-23)

And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. (Mark 8:31)

For He was teaching His disciples and telling them, "The Son of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him; and when He has been killed, He will rise three days later." But they did not understand this statement, and they were afraid to ask Him. (Mark 9:31-32, NASB)

The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee. And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. (Luke 13:31-32)

(5) The fifth mention appears in Luke and Matthew. Jesus and His disciples journeyed toward Jerusalem. It would be His last trip to the city before His crucifixion. Before they reached Jericho Jesus told them one last time,

For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. (Luke 18:32-33; see also Matthew 20:18-19)

At the last came two false witnesses, And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days. (Matthew 26:60-61; see also Mark 14:58)

(7) And as Jesus hung on the cross, the religious leaders, still not understanding what Jesus meant, taunted Him,

And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads, And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. (Matthew 27:39-40)

Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again. Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first. (Matthew 27:62-64)

(9) From the two angels standing before the empty tomb, addressing the women who arrived early in the morning:

He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. (Luke 24:6-7)

(10) The two men on the road to Emmaus, not realizing that they were talking to the resurrected Jesus, told Him,

But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done. (Luke 24:21)

(11) But Jesus reminded them, without identifying Himself, that the Messiah would rise on the third day:

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: (Luke 24:45-46)

And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; (Acts 10:39-40)

(13) Lastly, we have the account from the Apostle Paul.

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: (1 Corinthians 15:3-4)

Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matthew 12:38-40)

Or we can look at the Egyptian slave that was abandoned by his master and brought to David. I hope this helps.

[Faber]

To fix my quotations on those last few lines:

Look at an example of the grammar in the Old Testament. In Esther 4:16, Esther tells Mordechai to
Or we can look at the Egyptian slave that was abandoned by his master and brought to David.
but he said,

"three days agone I fell sick." (1 Samuel 30:13)

[rstrats]

since these things were done" and because the last thing mentioned was the crucifixion (Luke 24:20), then the 7th day of the week would have been the second day since the crucifixion. This would mean that the 6th day of the week was the first day since

[Faber]

Actually, there is only one scripture, Mark 16:9 - as it is translated in the KJV and similar versions - that says that the resurrection took place on the first of the week. And even that one is questioned by many scholars as to its authenticity.

Granted, I should have left that one out. But the other passages are absolutely clear that it was on Sunday, the first day of the week, that it took place.

What exactly is it that you believe? That Jesus was resurrected on Monday?

[One Bad Pig]

Granted, I should have left that one out. But the other passages are absolutely clear that it was on Sunday, the first day of the week, that it took place.

What exactly is it that you believe? That Jesus was resurrected on Monday?

IIRC he believes that the crucifixion happened on Wednesday, and the Resurrection happened on Saturday.

[rstrats]

Faber,
re: "Granted, I should have left that one out. But the other passages are absolutely clear that it was on Sunday, the first day of the week, that it took place."

That is incorrect. The other verses only say that the tomb was empty when the women arrived at it. They say nothing with regard to when it became empty.



re: "What exactly is it that you believe? That Jesus was resurrected on Monday?"

I think scripture more likely suggests a 1st day of the week resurrection.

[rstrats]

Change 1:

The comment in post #51: "They are only interchangeable if the phrase, 'the third day', is referring to the third day 'after' the resurrection." should be chaged to: "They are only interchangeable if the phrase, 'the third day' is referring to the third day 'after' the crucifixion."

[rstrats]

One Bad Pig,
re: "IIRC..."

What does IIRC stand for?

[John Reece]

One Bad Pig,
re: "IIRC..."

What does IIRC stand for?

If I recall correctly.

[rstrats]

John Reece,
re: "If I recall correctly."

OK, thanks.

[rstrats]

One Bad Pig,
re: "IIRC"

I'm sorry, but you don't.

[rstrats]

With the new year upon us, maybe there will be someone new looking in who knows of examples as requested in the OP and clarified in further posts. And again, remember that the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. As stated, there are other topics that do that. However, there are those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language such as the Messiah saying that He would be in the heart of the earth for 3 nights when He knew that it would only be for 2 nights. But in order to say that it was common, one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern had to have been used. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. So far no one has come forth with any.