Christianity Is Dangerous

[Meh Gerbil]

I miss rickyroma.

He was a great deal of fun.
I'd trust him to run an atheist government.

[Mountain Man]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I wanted to make a general observation about modern evangelistic techniques, particularly in America: it seems to me that some Christians only want to talk about the love of God and downplay his other worthy attributes like jealously, wrathfulness, and the judgment that awaits those who refuse to repent. Some Christians are so eager for non-believers to like God that it's as if they've forgotten that we also have good reason to fear him.

[Meh Gerbil]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I wanted to make a general observation about modern evangelistic techniques, particularly in America: it seems to me that some Christians only want to talk about the love of God and downplay his other worthy attributes like jealously, wrathfulness, and the judgment that awaits those who refuse to repent. Some Christians are so eager for non-believers to like God that it's as if they've forgotten that we also have good reason to fear him.

A few thoughts:

1: The easiest idea to sell about any god would be that if the god gets upset that someone is going to get hurt.
2: The second easiest idea to sell about any god would be that the entity will use his/her position to lay down a set of rules.
3: The hardest thing to sell about any god would be self-sacrificial love, an assertion this thread has demonstrated.

[whag]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I wanted to make a general observation about modern evangelistic techniques, particularly in America: it seems to me that some Christians only want to talk about the love of God and downplay his other worthy attributes like jealously, wrathfulness, and the judgment that awaits those who refuse to repent.

Yes, because that would be extremely effective to market God as jealous--a human trait to which we should all aspire.

Some Christians are so eager for non-believers to like God that it's as if they've forgotten that we also have good reason to fear him.

Exactly. Coercion by fear has always been the underlying reason for salvation. It works best.

[Meh Gerbil]

Coercion by fear has always been the underlying reason for salvation. It works best.

You've said a great deal with this simple statement.
It is too bad that more people don't realize that the system of the world is fear.
The Kingdom doesn't need these tools.

[One Bad Pig]

Coercion by fear has always been the underlying reason for salvation. It works best.

Coercion by fear has very seldom been the underlying reason for salvation. It's a wonder it ever works at all. It mostly just breeds resentment and grudging outward conformity by those who have no other option.

[whag]

You've said a great deal with this simple statement.
It is too bad that more people don't realize that the system of the world is fear.
The Kingdom doesn't need these tools.

"Fear is like a giant fog. It sits on your brain and blocks everything - real feelings, true happiness, real joy. They can't get through that fog. But you lift it, and buddy, you're in for the ride of your life."

Rip Torn, Defending Your Life

Any system of belief that uses fear as a tool for conversion doesn't have the courage of its convictions.

[whag]

Coercion by fear has very seldom been the underlying reason for salvation. It's a wonder it ever works at all. It mostly just breeds resentment and grudging outward conformity by those who have no other option.

tell that to MM who views it as a key component to secure conversion. your disagreement is actually with those who bemoan fear's lost heyday.

[Meh Gerbil]

Coercion by fear has very seldom been the underlying reason for salvation. It's a wonder it ever works at all. It mostly just breeds resentment and grudging outward conformity by those who have no other option.

That's the stuff!

[Meh Gerbil]

tell that to MM who views it as a key component to secure conversion. your disagreement is actually with those who bemoan fear's lost heyday.

Did fear go out of fashion at some point?
Every time I turn on the TV I see people selling everything from shampoo to foreign policy based on fear of one sort or another.
Fear is the life blood of the system of the world and it permeates everything.
Lost heyday, indeed.

Any system of belief that uses fear as a tool for conversion doesn't have the courage of its convictions.

Now this I like quite a bit.

BTW, some posts with twisted views of Scripture are likely imminent so brace yourself for some whoppers.

[Darth Executor]

A few thoughts:

1: The easiest idea to sell about any god would be that if the god gets upset that someone is going to get hurt.
2: The second easiest idea to sell about any god would be that the entity will use his/her position to lay down a set of rules.
3: The hardest thing to sell about any god would be self-sacrificial love, an assertion this thread has demonstrated.

What exactly do you mean by "sell"? It seems pretty hard to sell atheists on the idea of a God that punishes people, particularly since they view the Christian God's punishments as over the top and unfair in many cases. I agree that your idea of self-sacrificial love is a hard sell. That's because your idea of self-sacrificial love is pretty much treason and thus a hard sell to anyone who isn't a sociopath because your idea of self-sacrificial love is evil and dumb.

I also think the above would make a good addition to your signature.

[Darth Executor]

"Fear is like a giant fog. It sits on your brain and blocks everything - real feelings, true happiness, real joy. They can't get through that fog. But you lift it, and buddy, you're in for the ride of your life."

Rip Torn, Defending Your Life

Any system of belief that uses fear as a tool for conversion doesn't have the courage of its convictions.

Fireman: Madam, don't go back into the house, it's burning and if you don't burn alive you'll choke on the smoke.
whag: Ignore this fearmonger. Fear is like a giant fog. It sits on your brain and blocks everything - real feelings, true happines, real joy. They can't get through that fog. But you lift it, and buddy, you're in for the ride of your life. Clearly the fearmonger doesn't have the courage of its convictions.

[whag]

Fireman: Madam, don't go back into the house, it's burning and if you don't burn alive you'll choke on the smoke.
whag: Ignore this fearmonger. Fear is like a giant fog. It sits on your brain and blocks everything - real feelings, true happines, real joy. They can't get through that fog. But you lift it, and buddy, you're in for the ride of your life. Clearly the fearmonger doesn't have the courage of its convictions.

The fireman is trained to override his fear and prevent madams from making bad decisions in a rescue effort. It's not even close to a good analogy, but serves my point that fear isn't conducive to critical thinking. Fear tactics are indicative of the tactician's marked lack of confidence in what he believes.

[JohnnyP]

The fireman is trained to override his fear and prevent madams from making bad decisions in a rescue effort. It's not even close to a good analogy, but serves my point that fear isn't conducive to critical thinking. Fear tactics are indicative of the tactician's marked lack of confidence in what he believes.

Flip it around, in some cases fear OUGHT to be a result of critical thinking. For example as you stand at the edge of a cliff and consider how high it is and what damage may come to you and how much you really don't want to die, you should conclude that you ought to be afraid of jumping off that cliff.

[Mountain Man]

A few thoughts:

1: The easiest idea to sell about any god would be that if the god gets upset that someone is going to get hurt.
2: The second easiest idea to sell about any god would be that the entity will use his/her position to lay down a set of rules.
3: The hardest thing to sell about any god would be self-sacrificial love, an assertion this thread has demonstrated.

It's not our job to "sell" God. It's our job to preach the truth even when it makes someone uncomfortable. We are to be salt and light to the world. Salt is an irritant, and a light shining in the darkness causes people to squirm and look away. The moment we downplay certain truths to make the gospel more palatable is the moment we become heretics .