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Christianity Is Dangerous

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  • Christianity Is Dangerous

    One thing that is beginning to annoy me a little bit is the tendency of Christian apologists to wave off 1,500 years of abuse in the name of Jesus Christ as if it were a trifle, a unfortunate misunderstanding, or a theological tiff. Church history is rife with the systemic rape, torture, enslavement, and murder of opponents of the one truth faith. Often, these cleansings were carried out against people whose faith system was quite nearly indistinguishable from those of the oppressor. It is a sordid, sick history of the presence of hell on earth.

    I've seen the apologists attack this issue by pointing to the eradication of slavery in the USA. This argument is one of many that just doesn't gain any traction, after all, it is just another case of Christian on Christian violence. Should the skeptic really be impressed that it took a Civil War for a Christian nation to eradicate slavery? Let's be serious.

    Another ridiculous argument usually involves laying out before the skeptic some long winded explanation about how the various sects of Christianity are different from one another. The problem is that every single branch of Christianity has violence in its past, with perhaps the exception of the Anabaptists, who were largely exterminated by other sects - we've a history of people claiming the name of Jesus Christ to kill pacifists! This approach is a train wreck.

    The abuse continues to our current day. From the sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, which was systemically covered up for decades, to the bat-poop nuttiness of Protestant Fundamentalists, who engage in the most glaring forms of psychological abuse every Sunday at 10:00am - to the really weird and sick stuff that rolls around under cover of darkness - the history is ongoing and it is a sad, sick, perverted heap of sin. Don't try to sell me the idea this stuff isn't ongoing, I was in a Fundy church that involved thousands of people. I saw the abuse up front and in person.

    So here is the burr for me.

    When a atheist comes to TWEB and starts taking about 'Theocracy' and fears about the 'Christian Right' and how Christians are bigots who are anxious to use power to destroy other human beings that atheist isn't some off the wall dingbat who is making stuff up. The dude just got up this morning and read the paper. Our marketing problems aren't his problems. Frankly, I hope Christians NEVER get power in any government on this planet again - and if you need examples as to why I feel that way I'd be happy to take you to a couple of churches I know. The sermons they deliver there will make you physically sick.

    The skeptics/atheists/militant-feminist-lesbian-meth-smokers are afraid of Christians for perfectly justifiable reasons.
    We need to recognize that the fear is grounded in REALITY and that many of these people have experienced abuse first hand.
    It is absurd that we expect abused people who are fully aware of church history to come in here and be perfectly polite.

    It is a miracle any of them talk to us at all.
    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

  • #2
    Originally posted by MehGerbil View Post
    One thing that is beginning to annoy me a little bit is the tendency of Christian apologists to wave off 1,500 years of abuse in the name of Jesus Christ as if it were a trifle, a unfortunate misunderstanding, or a theological tiff. Church history is rife with the systemic rape, torture, enslavement, and murder of opponents of the one truth faith. Often, these cleansings were carried out against people whose faith system was quite nearly indistinguishable from those of the oppressor. It is a sordid, sick history of the presence of hell on earth.

    I've seen the apologists attack this issue by pointing to the eradication of slavery in the USA. This argument is one of many that just doesn't gain any traction, after all, it is just another case of Christian on Christian violence. Should the skeptic really be impressed that it took a Civil War for a Christian nation to eradicate slavery? Let's be serious.

    Another ridiculous argument usually involves laying out before the skeptic some long winded explanation about how the various sects of Christianity are different from one another. The problem is that every single branch of Christianity has violence in its past, with perhaps the exception of the Anabaptists, who were largely exterminated by other sects - we've a history of people claiming the name of Jesus Christ to kill pacifists! This approach is a train wreck.

    The abuse continues to our current day. From the sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, which was systemically covered up for decades, to the bat-poop nuttiness of Protestant Fundamentalists, who engage in the most glaring forms of psychological abuse every Sunday at 10:00am - to the really weird and sick stuff that rolls around under cover of darkness - the history is ongoing and it is a sad, sick, perverted heap of sin. Don't try to sell me the idea this stuff isn't ongoing, I was in a Fundy church that involved thousands of people. I saw the abuse up front and in person.

    So here is the burr for me.

    When a atheist comes to TWEB and starts taking about 'Theocracy' and fears about the 'Christian Right' and how Christians are bigots who are anxious to use power to destroy other human beings that atheist isn't some off the wall dingbat who is making stuff up. The dude just got up this morning and read the paper. Our marketing problems aren't his problems. Frankly, I hope Christians NEVER get power in any government on this planet again - and if you need examples as to why I feel that way I'd be happy to take you to a couple of churches I know. The sermons they deliver there will make you physically sick.

    The skeptics/atheists/militant-feminist-lesbian-meth-smokers are afraid of Christians for perfectly justifiable reasons.
    We need to recognize that the fear is grounded in REALITY and that many of these people have experienced abuse first hand.
    It is absurd that we expect abused people who are fully aware of church history to come in here and be perfectly polite.

    It is a miracle any of them talk to us at all.
    Sorry MehGerbil, this really is nonsense. None of what you said points to a problem with Christianity - it points to a problem with MAN! If men, men who claimed the name of Christ, followed the clear ethical teaching set out by Christ, and the New Testament in general, the church would have had a drastically different history - but they often don't, men are wicked - that is the real problem.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by MehGerbil View Post
      ... Should the skeptic really be impressed that it took a Civil War for a Christian nation to eradicate slavery? Let's be serious.
      The skeptic will first correct you that this is NOT a Christian nation.
      That's what
      - She

      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
      Stephen R. Donaldson

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        Sorry MehGerbil, this really is nonsense. None of what you said points to a problem with Christianity - it points to a problem with MAN! If men, men who claimed the name of Christ, followed the clear ethical teaching set out by Christ, and the New Testament in general, the church would have had a drastically different history - but they often don't, men are wicked - that is the real problem.
        Every single time a group gets caught with their mittens in the cookie jar they roll out the same excuse.

        If a skeptic came in here and said "atheism is a great way to run a government but you'll have to ignore Stalin because he was not good at atheism" would you buy it? Christians do the opposite and claim Stalin's lack of moral compass was related to his atheism.

        Skeptics have every right to look at the track record of Christianity.
        We cannot expect them to be impressed by rhetorical dodges.
        Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
          The skeptic will first correct you that this is NOT a Christian nation.
          If in the Skeptic's mind the presence of a Christian President, House of Representatives, Judiciary and 90% Christian population (at the time of the Civil War) doesn't make a Christian Nation then I'm sure I don't know what would compose such a nation. I suppose we could have slaughtered the rest of the Indians and made it 100% Christian.
          Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MehGerbil View Post
            Every single time a group gets caught with their mittens in the cookie jar they roll out the same excuse.

            If a skeptic came in here and said "atheism is a great way to run a government but you'll have to ignore Stalin because he was not good at atheism" would you buy it? Christians do the opposite and claim Stalin's lack of moral compass was related to his atheism.

            Skeptics have every right to look at the track record of Christianity.
            We cannot expect them to be impressed by rhetorical dodges.
            You do know the difference between someone being consistent with their ideology compared to someone being inconsistent with their ideology, right? Stalin was consistent with his, the Crusades were not consistent with Jesus' teachings. That's where the difference lies, and that you need to recognize.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MehGerbil View Post
              Every single time a group gets caught with their mittens in the cookie jar they roll out the same excuse.

              If a skeptic came in here and said "atheism is a great way to run a government but you'll have to ignore Stalin because he was not good at atheism" would you buy it? Christians do the opposite and claim Stalin's lack of moral compass was related to his atheism.
              False MG! There is no ethical system for atheism to aspire too. So when a Stalin murders millions he is not violating some atheistic moral standard. On the other hand when Christians do wicked things they are violating an ethical standard - they are in rebellion against the clear teachings of Christ.

              Skeptics have every right to look at the track record of Christianity.
              We cannot expect them to be impressed by rhetorical dodges.
              No rhetorical dodges here - just facts. Again, Christianity is not dangerous - human beings are.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MehGerbil View Post
                If in the Skeptic's mind the presence of a Christian President, House of Representatives, Judiciary and 90% Christian population (at the time of the Civil War) doesn't make a Christian Nation then I'm sure I don't know what would compose such a nation. I suppose we could have slaughtered the rest of the Indians and made it 100% Christian.
                Tell me MehGerbil, what exact teachings of Christ were these men following?
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #9
                  All good points, MehGerbil. Some Christians seem to forget the preaching of Jesus is just as much, in fact I think more so, directed to them as it is to outsiders. The teachings of Jesus are not the same as teaching about Jesus.
                  βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον
                  ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                  אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Tell me MehGerbil, what exact teachings of Christ were these men following?
                    You can debate that with Darth Executor.

                    And again, you're simply doing what every sect does, and that is partitioning yourself off into a sub-group that washes its hands and walks away from the mess. While that might be accurate we cannot expect a skeptic to appreciate it. You're fighting a valid perception with a theological obscurity delivered via words, church charters and cleverly worded rebuttals. This works well within the flock but for how well it is working outside the flock, well, I'll let you ask any atheist here if they find that impressive. PRO TIP: They don't.

                    My point, regardless of any slicing and dicing you may want to perform, is that the skeptic has very solid, rational, and well founded reasons to be afraid of Christianity ever gaining any power anywhere. After all the carnage why would they care about your equivocation about it?

                    Here is what you're asking a skeptic to believe: For 1,500 years most of the theologians/leaders/popes/pastors didn't really get it, but I do.
                    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                      You do know the difference between someone being consistent with their ideology compared to someone being inconsistent with their ideology, right? Stalin was consistent with his, the Crusades were not consistent with Jesus' teachings. That's where the difference lies, and that you need to recognize.
                      I don't think the admission that Christians are hypocrites gains you any ground here.
                      Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MehGerbil View Post

                        My point, regardless of any slicing and dicing you may want to perform, is that the skeptic has very solid, rational, and well founded reasons to be afraid of Christianity ever gaining any power anywhere. After all the carnage why would they care about your equivocation about it?
                        Replace "skeptic" and "Christianity" with pretty much any two groups you can think of, and your statement will remain true. The problem is not Christianity, it's humanity.
                        Here is what you're asking a skeptic to believe: For 1,500 years most of the theologians/leaders/popes/pastors didn't really get it, but I do.
                        Here's what you're asking us to believe: Nobody else gets it, but I do.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          Here's what you're asking us to believe: Nobody else gets it, but I do.
                          While rhetorically entertaining your assertion is demonstrably false.
                          My point is that skeptics (others) see what we're doing.
                          I cannot ask you to believe I'm the only one that gets it while making the case that many others do get the point.

                          Just listen to what the skeptics are saying.
                          It isn't a secret.
                          It takes no special knowledge.

                          It is obvious.
                          Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            The problem is not Christianity, it's humanity.
                            1) Christians are humans.

                            2) Define Christianity and give three examples.
                            The last Christian left at tweb

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MehGerbil View Post
                              I don't think the admission that Christians are hypocrites gains you any ground here.
                              It's an admission of the facts, it's also a way to point out that there is a difference between atrocities like what went in in Communist Russia, as opposed to the Crusades. Christianity is built on the fact that man is fallen and in sin. This fits pretty well with the idea that many who Christians can, and often will do what is wrong. Any human group in power is dangerous, depending on who they are they will be more dangerous than others.

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