So Easy To Be An Atheist!

[Tassman]

What? You agree that we are insignificant specks then why on earth do our moral ideals have significance? Or do you have the fantasy that some how they have significance?

Our moral rules have significance within our communities, not in the eternal sense that you fantasise about. This is no more than escapist wish fulfilment.

[seer]

So say atheism's adversaries. It carries as much logical weight as the claim by non-Christians that tritheism is the logical conclusion of the doctrine of the Trinity.

Existential nihilism: is the philosophical theory that life has no intrinsic meaning or value. With respect to the universe, existential nihilism suggests that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant, without purpose and unlikely to change in the totality of existence. According to the theory, each individual is an isolated being born into the universe, barred from knowing "why", yet compelled to invent meaning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_nihilism

Tell me Doug what do you disagree with in this definition?

[seer]

They have significance to us because they impact our existence, in much the same way our children have significance to us because they impact our lives. They do not have "eternal" or "absolute" or "objective" significance because we will each one day die and cease to exist, so the significance will end at that point.



It is not a fantasy - it is subject and temporal significance - which is still significance. It's simply not "absolute" or "eternal" significance.

When I look up "significance" I find the definitions:

"the quality of being worthy of attention; importance"

and

"the meaning to be found in words or events."

Nowhere in either definition is there any indication that significance has to be "permanent" or "eternal" or "objective" to be real.

Do you tell yourself this stuff Carp as you click the heels of your ruby red slippers three times?

[seer]

Our moral rules have significance within our communities, not in the eternal sense that you fantasise about. This is no more than escapist wish fulfilment.

But neither we or our communities actually have significance, as you already agreed...

[JimL]

And so what if we do? We are all ultimately meaningless anyway... Just a bunch of ants running around...

Right, if we all killed each other, the world would go on without us, the same as it goes on without the dinosaurs, but so long as we are here our lives have meaning to us which is why we have moral laws to protect our idiotic selves from each other. You've said it yourself in the past, without god, i.e. without objective morals, you wouldn't be able to behave yourself in a mature and moral way with respect to others.

[JonathanL]

So say atheism's adversaries.

I'm pretty sure a significant amount of atheists say it too.

[seer]

You've said it yourself in the past, without god, i.e. without objective morals, you wouldn't be able to behave yourself in a mature and moral way with respect to others.

So what? If you can get away with it why not? And why on earth should we respect these insignificant nothings or even ourselves? You are not making sense Jim.

[JimL]

So what? If you can get away with it why not? And why on earth should we respect these insignificant nothings or even ourselves? You are not making sense Jim.

And there you go christians, now you know why we created gods and his supposed laws.

[seer]

And there you go christians, now you know why we created gods and his supposed laws.

Are you a good man Jim? How do you know? Based on what?

[JimL]

Are you a good man Jim? How do you know? Based on what?

The question isn't whether or not we are good seer, people are neither good nor bad, the question is whether or not we are intelligent and responsible enough to understand and to morally behave according to that which is ultimately in all of our collective best interests. I understand that we don't always do that, whether we believe in god or not, that's why we have prisons.

[Doug Shaver]

I'm pretty sure a significant amount of atheists say it too.

Got some quotations?

And try to remember that just because an atheist says "I believe X" doesn't mean they claiming "There is no God, therefore X."

[carpedm9587]

Do you tell yourself this stuff Carp as you click the heels of your ruby red slippers three times?

Not exactly a post with a lot of content for discussion, Seer. You continue to go to these places when you have no actual argument to make. It's not very productive, IMO.

[carpedm9587]

So say atheism's adversaries. It carries as much logical weight as the claim by non-Christians that tritheism is the logical conclusion of the doctrine of the Trinity.

So say many atheists, Doug. Existential nihilism is painted as the "bad thing." I have no ideas if it's "bad" or "good." The reality is, we are indeed a small species is a backwater corner of a universe that is eventually going to cease to exist. Any meaning exists only so long as their is a mind to conceive of it, and eventually there will not be.

Somehow that is supposed to make me despair and end my existence. However, I actually like my existence, and I like my life and the experience of living. So I'm going to live it - and enjoy it. The universe existed long before I was born, and will exist long after I end. I do not find the fact that we aren't "the king of the world" a matter for dismay. It doesn't change my day. It doesn't undermine the value I find in life, or the experience of living it. I don't need "absolute cosmic meaning" to find "meaning."

The canard that anything that isn't eternal and absolute isn't real is the true hoax. Especially when people are pinning their hopes on something that cannot be shown to even exist.

[seer]

Not exactly a post with a lot of content for discussion, Seer. You continue to go to these places when you have no actual argument to make. It's not very productive, IMO.

OK, now do this: click your heels and say I really have value, I really have value, I really have value. Now don't you feel better?

[carpedm9587]

OK, now do this: click your heels and say I really have value, I really have value, I really have value. Now don't you feel better?

I really have value.

I don't eternally have value. I don't absolutely have value. But I really have value.

You'll be hard-put to show otherwise. Unless of course, you try to make the argument that the only REAL value is eternal and absolute. Unfortunately for you, neither of those concepts are part of the definition of "value." Look it up...