Originally posted by 37818
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Three irrefutable miracles.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI never said there was evidence for our physical existence nor natural being eternal. Despite your assertions there is no evidence that they are finite. I have repeatedly stated that it is a possibility that natural law and our physical existence are eternal.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostIf they were eternal they may not necessarily be contingent on anything else. They may possibly simply exist eternally.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostOk, they do not need to exist then, is that what you are arguing? Uncaused existence is a single starting point, whether uncaused existence be god or not. It is only uncaused existence which self exists and anything else is contingent upon to exist.
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostOk, they do not need to exist then, is that what you are arguing? Uncaused existence is a single starting point, whether uncaused existence be god or not. It is only uncaused existence which self exists and anything else is contingent upon to exist.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostPerfect explanation of the possible eternal Quantum World and the eternal natural law that determines the outcome of all cause and effect relationships, which resulted in our universe and all possible universes.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostYou are entirely missing the point. It is just as possible to claim that natural law and material existence are eternal as it is to claim the existence of an eternally existing god. In fact, the former has more evidence supporting it than the latter.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostOk, explain the possibility. Uncaused existence is uncaused. Any universes which has causes and effects is other than uncaused.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostNot necessarily the greater cosmos within which the universes that have causes and effects exist. Just as your posited divinely created universe has causes and effects
Such an uncaused cause would still be contingent on there being an uncaused existence, which is different than a cause.Last edited by 37818; 08-24-2018, 04:02 PM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostNo. What is uncaused is not caused nor is it an effect . All causes are finite and temporal. And uncaused cause would be unique. Having not been caused, but yet being the reason for causes, whether there was never any first cause or there was one unique first cause from it.
Such an uncaused cause would still be contingent on there being an uncaused existence, which is different than a cause.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostEnough! You are clearly determined to make words mean what you want them to mean so as to establish the existence of your deity.
Uncaused reality. Different things which are in reality are not the reality. Only uncaused reality is of itself.
What word do you want me to use to describe this?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostUncaused existence. Different things which are in existence are not the existence. Only uncaused existence is truly self existent.
Uncaused reality. Different things which are in reality are not the reality. Only uncaused reality is of itself.
What word do you want me to use to describe this?
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Natural law to have always existed, requires there to be uncaused existence. As to the "god" question, unless that "god" is the uncaused existence, that "god" is no god. Are you incapable of understanding the difference?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostNatural law to have always existed, requires there to be uncaused existence. As to the "god" question, unless that "god" is the uncaused existence, that "god" is no god. Are you incapable of understanding the difference?
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