Nobody Dies for a Lie

[shunyadragon]

Natural law would also have to be more than uncaused existence. Since natural law governs temporal things. Material existence can never be the uncaused existence. Space is not material, though space is contingent on matter. Space is not uncaused. So saying that it is possible for material existence to be uncaused existence, possible how? Since material is not everything (not space) and not everywhere (space which is caused by matter might be considered everywhere). Explain.

Been over this many times like Ground Hog Day. All of this is based on your 'personal' theist assumptions, without evidence.

[Tassman]

Natural law would also have to be more than uncaused existence. Since natural law governs temporal things. Material existence can never be the uncaused existence. Space is not material, though space is contingent on matter. Space is not uncaused. So saying that it is possible for material existence to be uncaused existence, possible how? Since material is not everything (not space) and not everywhere (space which is caused by matter might be considered everywhere). Explain.

You keep arguing erroneously that God is somehow different. It is just as possible to claim that natural law and material existence are uncaused existence and eternal as it is to claim the existence of an uncaused, eternally existing god.

[37818]

You keep arguing erroneously that God is somehow different. It is just as possible to claim that natural law and material existence are uncaused existence and eternal as it is to claim the existence of an uncaused, eternally existing god.

Explain this possibility. What is uncaused has no cause. Causes and effects are caused. Only uncaused existence can be said to be self existent. Not anything can be self caused.

[Tassman]

Explain this possibility. What is uncaused has no cause. Causes and effects are caused. Only uncaused existence can be said to be self existent. Not anything can be self caused.

Such as the uncaused eternal existence of the natural, material universe. This is much more likely than the concept of an uncaused eternal existence of a supernatural, immaterial deity.

[37818]

Such as the uncaused eternal existence of the natural, material universe.

How can what has no caused be of finite and temporal things?

This is much more likely than the concept of an uncaused eternal existence of a supernatural, immaterial deity.

What is impossible is not more likely.

[shunyadragon]

How can what has no caused be of finite and temporal things?

What is impossible is not more likely.

First, Natural Law is not a thing and can possibly exist eternally. Second, the Quantum World cannot be defined limited in space and time and in and as of itself is not a 'thing.' Things arise from the Quantum World.

[Mountain Man]

You keep arguing erroneously that God is somehow different. It is just as possible to claim that natural law and material existence are uncaused existence and eternal as it is to claim the existence of an uncaused, eternally existing god.

"All the evidence seems to indicate, that the universe has not existed forever, but that it had a beginning..."
-Stephen Hawking

So the next question is, what caused the universe?

Source: The New Atheism and Five Arguments for God

For think of what the universe is: all of space-time reality, including allhttps://www.reasonablefaith.org/writ...ments-for-god/

© Copyright Original Source

[shunyadragon]

"All the evidence seems to indicate, that the universe has not existed forever, but that it had a beginning..."
-Stephen Hawking

So the next question is, what caused the universe?

Source: The New Atheism and Five Arguments for God

For think of what the universe is: all of space-time reality, including allhttps://www.reasonablefaith.org/writ...ments-for-god/

© Copyright Original Source

. . . had a beginning in a multiverse.

[Rushing Jaws]

Many are the times I have heard that Christianity is to be believed because, "nobody would give their lives for a lie." Many of these same people then argue that climate change and the impact of fossil fuels is a myth - a lie.

So what do you do with this?

[37818]

First, Natural Law is not a thing and can possibly exist eternally. Second, the Quantum World cannot be defined limited in space and time and in and as of itself is not a 'thing.' Things arise from the Quantum World.

Quantum has to do with the finite or it would not be a quantum.

[shunyadragon]

Quantum has to do with the finite or it would not be a quantum.

Not is does not from the perspective of science. The quantum a the smallest measurable quantity of energy and does not define the Quantum Mechanics is the science of describing the attributes of the Quantum World, and the Quantum World is described as boundless,



You need to go back to high school and take a basic course in Physics.

[37818]

Not is does not from the perspective of science. The quantum a the smallest measurable quantity of energy and does not define the Quantum Mechanics is the science of describing the attributes of the Quantum World, and the Quantum World is described as boundless,



You need to go back to high school and take a basic course in Physics.

What is a "discrete quantity?" A finite.

[Tassman]

There is no good reason to think that Jim Jones and Joseph Smith or any of the religious leaders throughout history proclaimed a religion they knew to be a lie...deluded or downright certifiable as they may well have been.

[Doug Shaver]

So what do you do with this?

I don't do anything with it, because I don't see a useful analogy. There is a pretty important difference between a lie and a mistake. History is full of people who died for mistakes.

I do think Christianity is a mistake, and I do not believe that any Christian who was in a position to know that their beliefs were untrue ever died for those beliefs.

[shunyadragon]

What is a "discrete quantity?" A finite.

No, it is a measurable quantity used in measuring the basic particles in the Quantum World.