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Nobody Dies for a Lie

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  • Nobody Dies for a Lie

    Many are the times I have heard that Christianity is to be believed because, "nobody would give their lives for a lie." Many of these same people then argue that climate change and the impact of fossil fuels is a myth - a lie.

    So what do you do with this?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  • #2
    This isn't analogous to the claim being made about Christianity because the apostles were indisputably in a position to know whether or not they see Jesus after his death. For this analogy to work you would have to demonstrate that this lawyer was knowingly part of some big conspiracy to make up claims about global warming.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • #3
      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      Many are the times I have heard that Christianity is to be believed because, "nobody would give their lives for a lie." Many of these same people then argue that climate change and the impact of fossil fuels is a myth - a lie.

      So what do you do with this?
      I get a redirection page that doesn't look legit.
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        I get a redirection page that doesn't look legit.
        It's an article about a lawyer who committed suicide to protest global warming.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          It's an article about a lawyer who committed suicide to protest global warming.
          Ah, thanks. Sounds like environmental wackyism to the extreme. Not quite the same as the deadly "reject Christ or die" ultimatum.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            Many are the times I have heard that Christianity is to be believed because, "nobody would give their lives for a lie."
            Not exactly right. What we say is that nobody would die for what they knew to be a lie. As the saying goes, liars make poor martyrs.

            As for the story you linked to, the guy committed suicide as a form of "protest", which in itself calls his mental competency into question, because rational people don't commit suicide.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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            • #7
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              This isn't analogous to the claim being made about Christianity because the apostles were indisputably in a position to know whether or not they see Jesus after his death. For this analogy to work you would have to demonstrate that this lawyer was knowingly part of some big conspiracy to make up claims about global warming.
              I don't think so. The point is that people WILL die for something they fervently believe to be true. That claim does not attest to the truth of what they are dying for. It simply attests to the fervency of their beliefs.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Not exactly right. What we say is that nobody would die for what they knew to be a lie. As the saying goes, liars make poor martyrs.

                As for the story you linked to, the guy committed suicide as a form of "protest", which in itself calls his mental competency into question, because rational people don't commit suicide.
                And knowingly saying something that will get you executed isn't a form of "suicide?"
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  And knowingly saying something that will get you executed isn't a form of "suicide?"
                  Correct.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    And knowingly saying something that will get you executed isn't a form of "suicide?"
                    It is not. Suicide is a voluntary act. Being a victim of execution is, by definition, involuntary.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      I don't think so. The point is that people WILL die for something they fervently believe to be true. That claim does not attest to the truth of what they are dying for. It simply attests to the fervency of their beliefs.
                      That is not how the argument is framed by Christian apologists, who emphasize that the apostles actually were in the position to objectively weigh the truth claim. It doesn't mean anything to demonstrate people dying for something they think is true without evidence (like Islamic suicide bombers).
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        I get a redirection page that doesn't look legit.
                        borkborkbork.PNG

                        What about this doesn't look legit?
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          Many are the times I have heard that Christianity is to be believed because, "nobody would give their lives for a lie."
                          There are lots of weird apologetics arguments about the early believers in Christianity and the spread of Christianity. Generally I don't find such arguments to be worth the pixels they are written on. The fact is there have been lots of religious fanatics throughout history who have believed all sorts of weird and crazy things. Their fervent belief doesn't make their beliefs true.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            There are lots of weird apologetics arguments about the early believers in Christianity and the spread of Christianity. Generally I don't find such arguments to be worth the pixels they are written on. The fact is there have been lots of religious fanatics throughout history who have believed all sorts of weird and crazy things. Their fervent belief doesn't make their beliefs true.
                            Considering the OP here presents a rather poor articulation of the argument (I won't call it a strawman because people really do seem to sincerely argue this way), this seems to be a rather low target.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              Considering the OP here presents a rather poor articulation of the argument (I won't call it a strawman because people really do seem to sincerely argue this way), this seems to be a rather low target.
                              I'm saying I've seen many and various other articulations of the argument, and I think they are all a bad joke.

                              Comment

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