Do you believe in zombies?

[JimL]

Jim, why did you start this thread using the word "zombies"?

Frankly you know we consider it blasphemous when referring to Christ. You are not engaging honestly here.

Give me one good reason why I shouldn't delete this thread and point you for blasphemy.

Because that's what a zombie is. The zombie belief originated in Haiti by Africans brought there as slaves who thought that their god, after they had died, would come and gather them from their graves and bring them back to a heavenly life in Africa. Can you believe that? I guess people living such miserable existences can be made to believe almost anything.

[mossrose]

Because that's what a zombie is. The zombie belief originated in Haiti by Africans brought there as slaves who thought that their god, after they had died, would come and gather them from their graves and bring them back to a heavenly life in Africa. Can you believe that? I guess people living such miserable existences can be made to believe almost anything.

I believe you started this thread with full knowledge that the word would be offensive. I think you are trying to work your way around using a blasphemous term for Jesus.

I think you need to be moderated. Fortunately for you, I am not the only moderator around here. But, believe this: you are under discussion regarding this thread.

[JimL]

I believe you started this thread with full knowledge that the word would be offensive. I think you are trying to work your way around using a blasphemous term for Jesus.

I think you need to be moderated. Fortunately for you, I am not the only moderator around here. But, believe this: you are under discussion regarding this thread.

Okay, whatever. So tell me, do you believe the story to be literal? Do you believe that long dead and buried people climbed out of their graves fully intact?

[mossrose]

Okay, whatever. So tell me, do you believe the story to be literal? Do you believe that long dead and buried people climbed out of their graves fully intact?

You don't care what I believe. You are simply trolling.

[Tassman]

You don't care what I believe. You are simply trolling.

But DO you believe the story of the resurrected saints in Matthew to be literally true?

[Teallaura]

Still doesn't explain why they would neglect to record such a remarkable event, unless you're suggesting that they had no idea it happened? Is that what you are suggesting?

Mark is the only other gospel where this point is valid - because Mark writes very much like a reporter and because he spends a LOT of the work on the events of the Crucifixion. However, Mark's gospel is not nearly as detailed about the Resurrection (and yes, there is the question about Mk 16:9-20). Mark is very detailed in the teachings of Christ and in many of the events but strangely not particularly detailed about the Resurrection. I have my suspicions about that but the fact is, Mark doesn't include much detail about it at all - unlike the other gospels. It's the only place where the omission would be curious but it isn't because Mark omits way too much to draw conclusions about why he omits a particular detail, beyond it didn't suit his rendering for whatever reason.

Luke and John are very different from Mark and the point is not valid. Therefore, it's also not valid to draw conclusions about what the writers did or did not know about the event. Drawing the conclusion that they hadn't heard of it is absurd - the synoptics aren't separated by a long enough period of time to presume that they weren't read by the other authors at the very least. That the various authors made different choices about what to include does not tell us they did not know of the things they choose not to include.

[JimL]

You don't care what I believe. You are simply trolling.

Yes I do care, that's why I'm asking. Some Christians have different views concerning resurrection, as to whether it's a physical or spiritual event. Matthew here would seem to be asserting that it's a physical happening. No? So I'm wondering if Christians think that is what will happen to them, if they will climb out of their graves like the saints in Matthew?

[Tassman]

Luke and John are very different from Mark and the point is not valid. Therefore, it's also not valid to draw conclusions about what the writers did or did not know about the event. Drawing the conclusion that they hadn't heard of it is absurd - the synoptics aren't separated by a long enough period of time to presume that they weren't read by the other authors at the very least. That the various authors made different choices about what to include does not tell us they did not know of the things they choose not to include.

[JimL]

Exactly my thinking. There are miraculous event claims throughout the gospels, all to express the divinity of Jesus, and this is the most extraordinary event of them all and 3 of the gospel 'historians" fail to mention it. The explanations so far given for this neglect on the authors part makes no sense whatsoever to me.

[Leonhard]

But DO you believe the story of the resurrected saints in Matthew to be literally true?

Yes.

[seer]

The story of Jesus and his resurection is an ancient take on zombies. Along with the resurrected Jesus of course, Matthew also has many long dead people, aka zombies, climbing out of their respective graves after an earthquake opened them up. The zombies then walked about the town an appeared to many according to Paul. And how is it that they, the long dead saints, aka zombies, resurrected prior to the resurrection of Jesus? Wasn't he supposed to be first? I don't know, I could be wrong about that. But why is none of this in the other gospels? Why is there no thundering, earthquakes or resurrected zombies walking around mentioned in Mark, Luke or John? Seems like a pretty important part of the story to forget or leave out if true.

So, do you believe in zombies, do long dead people resurrect fully intact? And why is this astonishing event not mentioned anywhere other than in Matthew?

Jim did the Christmas season upset you so much that you just had to come out with this nonsense?

[Cow Poke]

Yes I do care, that's why I'm asking. Some Christians have different views concerning resurrection, as to whether it's a physical or spiritual event. Matthew here would seem to be asserting that it's a physical happening. No? So I'm wondering if Christians think that is what will happen to them, if they will climb out of their graves like the saints in Matthew?

Show me where the Bible says they climbed out of their graves.

[Cow Poke]

Yes I do care, that's why I'm asking. Some Christians have different views concerning resurrection, as to whether it's a physical or spiritual event. Matthew here would seem to be asserting that it's a physical happening. No? So I'm wondering if Christians think that is what will happen to them, if they will climb out of their graves like the saints in Matthew?

This is a steaming load of horsie poo, Jim. You are incredibly dishonest and disingenuous here. To Mossy's point, you don't give a flying flip what anybody actually thinks about this, which is why you use "zombies" in the title, and do everything you can to make it look like a zombie movie. Your phrase "climb out of their graves" is a purposeful distortion of the actual text, with which you obviously are not familiar.

New American Standard 1977
and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;

Jubilee Bible 2000
and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who slept arose

King James 2000 Bible
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints that slept arose,

American King James Version
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

American Standard Version
and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised;

Douay-Rheims Bible
And the graves were opened: and many bodies of the saints that had slept arose,

Darby Bible Translation
and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints fallen asleep arose,

English Revised Version
and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised;

Webster's Bible Translation
And the graves were opened, and many bodies of saints who slept, arose,

Weymouth New Testament
the tombs opened; and many of God's people who were asleep in death awoke.

World English Bible
The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;

Young's Literal Translation
and the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who have fallen asleep, arose,

Starlight's assessment of me actually describes you, particularly in this instance....

...I have come to view him as an extremely disingenuous and unprincipled poster who regularly spouts inconsistencies....

[tabibito]

Show me where the Bible says they climbed out of their graves.

Matt 27:52 ... many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after* his resurrection AV many saints who had died were brought back to life. 53 After* his resurrection, they came out of their tombs ISV

Noting that the people concerned are not recorded to have left the tombs until after Christ's resurrection.

* "after" from "meta" - "with" or "upon" (denoting "concurrent") - Breaking the passage into two sentences (ISV) doesn't seem to be warranted. ETA, the AV's comma doesn't seem warranted either.

Definitely no surprise that Mark doesn't record the incident.

[Cow Poke]

Matt 27:52 ... many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after* his resurrection AV many saints who had died were brought back to life. 53 After* his resurrection, they came out of their tombs ISV

Noting that the people concerned are not recorded to have left the tombs until after Christ's resurrection.

* "after" from "meta" - "with" or "upon" (denoting "concurrent") - Breaking the passage into two sentences (ISV) doesn't seem to be warranted. ETA, the AV's comma doesn't seem warranted either.

Definitely no surprise that Mark doesn't record the incident.

So, yeah, not "climbed out", but came out, were raised, etc....

But you reminded me of JimL's assertion.... (bolding mine)

...And how is it that they, the long dead saints, aka zombies, resurrected prior to the resurrection of Jesus? Wasn't he supposed to be first? I don't know, I could be wrong about that....

He is not only wrong about

• the "zombie" factor,
• but about Paul claiming they were seen of the 500 plus,
• the 'chatting with locals'
• the "climbing out of their graves",
• the "prior to the resurrection of Jesus"...

The only thing he got right was "I don't know, I could be wrong about that"