Do you believe in zombies?

[JimL]

Don't take the bait, simply means that you feel as though you have something to fear.

[JimL]

He was the first to be raised in Glory. Others had been raised to life before his resurrection, like Lazarus. But they then lived out their natural lives and died like all men do.

Ah, if I remember, and understood it correctly, Elijah was resurrected long before Jesus, no?

[JimL]

I think that's pretty apparent.

As usual, you think wrong.

[JimL]

Given context and the clause, I think 27:52 is probably a parenthetical - that fits contextually and with the other synoptics. Greek didn't use punctuation much if at all (none that I remember reading about) and there are places where that complicates translation - this most like is one of those. My guess is that had parenthesis been invented 2000 years ago, we wouldn't be having this conversation. That's not 'making whatever I want' out of it - it's applying knowledge and reason to the problem.

There is a rational case for your view - but here we both have the same limitation that we have to work from an English translation and Matt got wordy in a bad spot. If that's the reading you think is correct that's perfectly fine - just realize it's not self-evident and therefore other views are not necessarily invalid.


Orthodox (little o if it weren't at the beginning of the sentence) Christianity accepts the physical resurrection of the saints. Here, the question is type of physical resurrection - most of us going with the non-glorified version (glorified bodies don't later die). Very few Christians buy 'spiritual resurrection' although it is an attractive idea to those who want to harmonize Christianity with naturalism. Most Christians here are orthodox and do not accept spiritual resurrection.

So, how does that work? Do our decayed bodies recompose and we all climb out of our graves and bodily ascend into heaven? What about people who have been creamated?

[Teallaura]

Ah, if I remember, and understood it correctly, Elijah was resurrected long before Jesus, no?

No, he wasn't resurrected at all - he never died.

[Teallaura]

So, how does that work? Do our decayed bodies recompose and we all climb out of our graves and bodily ascend into heaven? What about people who have been creamated?

New bodies are created from the old. It's not that simple - the old are made new so it's more like the old bodies - in whatever form - become brand new ones as if they were never old ones. Kinda like a reboot, I suppose.

Cremation isn't an obstacle for an omnipotent God. Old bodies - old atoms if need be - become brand new.

I think it's a mistake to get hung up on the specific atoms - arguably none of us have the originals after puberty anyway.

New bodies for the new creation - Scripture doesn't talk about physical bodies in Heaven per se. Also, the wicked do NOT ascend to Heaven, bodily or otherwise.

[tabibito]

The texts all say the same thing CP, so you're just being disingenuous. There are 2 quakes, one upon Jesus' death and the saints resurrection, and one after the sabbath upon jesus resurrection.

Not two, just the one. Matthew has organised the text so as to group the signs and wonders attending the crucifixion and (as a matter of foreshadowing) the resurrection, and cites the source of the information as "the women who followed Jesus from Galilee." He then continues with a more detailed and chronological account of the signs and wonders attending the resurrection. John follows a roughly similar process when he cites "the disciple whom Jesus loved." (John 21:24)

The Koine Greek text for this passage is however, inherently (though incompletely) ambiguous, and you have correctly interpreted the English language translations.

[rogue06]

Ah, if I remember, and understood it correctly, Elijah was resurrected long before Jesus, no?

No. He was lifted up into heaven while he was still very much alive.

[Christianbookworm]

Ah, if I remember, and understood it correctly, Elijah was resurrected long before Jesus, no?

He wasn't resurrected. He was taken alive.

[Christianbookworm]

New bodies are created from the old. It's not that simple - the old are made new so it's more like the old bodies - in whatever form - become brand new ones as if they were never old ones. Kinda like a reboot, I suppose.

Cremation isn't an obstacle for an omnipotent God. Old bodies - old atoms if need be - become brand new.

I think it's a mistake to get hung up on the specific atoms - arguably none of us have the originals after puberty anyway.

New bodies for the new creation - Scripture doesn't talk about physical bodies in Heaven per se. Also, the wicked do NOT ascend to Heaven, bodily or otherwise.

You don't have the same atoms you had seven years ago. If you replaced all of a ship's components over time, would it still be the same ship?

[Cow Poke]

Don't take the bait, simply means that you feel as though you have something to fear.

That's just dumb.

[Cow Poke]

As usual, you think wrong.

Jim, when you state "as usual", you really need to prove that"s "usual". You can't.

[Cow Poke]

So, how does that work? Do our decayed bodies recompose and we all climb out of our graves and bodily ascend into heaven? What about people who have been creamated?

There is no "climbing out of the grave". That's simply your goofy and disingenuous attempt to 'zombify' the resurrection.

[JimL]

No, he wasn't resurrected at all - he never died.

Ah, interesting. So Elijah ascended, but he never died. But if that's true how do you explain John 3:13 where Jesus says: no one has gone up to heaven except for himself? And also, because it just occured to me when thinking about this, Moses died, right? And Moses was at the transfiguration, correct? So he must have been resurrected prior to Jesus, yes?

[JimL]

There is no "climbing out of the grave". That's simply your goofy and disingenuous attempt to 'zombify' the resurrection.

What's goofy about it. The saints were resurrected while in their tombs and then emerged from those tombs. That's what I'm going by. What is your explanation and what are you basing it on?