Malevolent Inheritance: Biola Professor on The Fall

[tabibito]

God conveniently sends mutineers to the place they could cause the most damage.

Earth might be considered a place of exile, certainly: and (for a time) Satan rules Earth as its god, with the churches (i.e. the congregations of the faithful) being embassies.

[rogue06]

That "myths" might have anticipated the event does not indicate that the event is a fictional account.

The sinking of the Titanic, obviously a myth developed from and influenced by the earlier fictional account of the Titan?
Lasers as weapons, obviously a myth developed from and influenced by the earlier fictional accounts of death rays?
AI, obviously a myth developed from and influenced by the earlier fictional accounts of thinking robots?
South Park is reputed to frequently anticipate events that later transpire.

History is littered with actual events that mimic earlier fictional accounts. Events cannot be dismissed as myth simply because there is an earlier and similar fictional account.
In this case, it is the record of an actual event which occurred during Logos mission as the messiah; briefly alluded to in Luke 10:18, and recapitulated in Revelation.

Obviously the moon landings developed from earlier fictional accounts including Jules Verne's From the Earth to the Moon and H. G. Wells' The First Men in the Moon

[whag]

That "myths" might have anticipated the event does not indicate that the event is a fictional account.

Myths aren’t conscious so can’t anticipate. If you meant the myths’ originators, you’ll have to clarify how you see this playing out circa 200BCE.

The sinking of the Titanic, obviously a myth developed from and influenced by the earlier fictional account of the Titan?

Except we have the boat and countless records. Not parallel.

Lasers as weapons, obviously a myth developed from and influenced by the earlier fictional accounts of death rays?

Endless documentation on lasers, preceded by cultures who concentrated the sun’s light with mirrors. Not parallel.

AI, obviously a myth developed from and influenced by the earlier fictional accounts of thinking robots?

See above.

South Park is reputed to frequently anticipate events that later transpire.

Again, not parallel with cultures seeking to explain the world through imagination and the projection of human drama.

History is littered with actual events that mimic earlier fictional accounts. Events cannot be dismissed as myth simply because there is an earlier and similar fictional account.

Don’t confuse dismissal with the reasonable conclusion that myths evolve. You can’t say only one is rooted in ontological, metaphysical fact while the others aren’t.

In this case, it is the record of an actual event which occurred during Logos mission as the messiah; briefly alluded to in Luke 10:18, and recapitulated in Revelation.

Check your chronology. The event in question originated centuries prior in oral tradition, was finally recorded in 100BCE, and was further fleshed out in Revelation. John Milton goes to town with the myth in the 17th century.

[Sparko]

There is, also in Revelation, a reference to the angels of the churches - the text does not make it clear whether it refers to celestial angels, or human messengers.



That was a declaration to a very ordinarily human king - a usage loosely akin to the common modern use of star with reference to a person ... pop- movie- rising- -star.

It is also a reference to Satan. Double Entendre.

[Sparko]

Obviously the moon landings developed from earlier fictional accounts including Jules Verne's From the Earth to the Moon and H. G. Wells' The First Men in the Moon

Don't get me started on Star Trek and current technology: Medical scanners, sensors, talking computers, personal communication devices, warp drive

[rogue06]

Don't get me started on Star Trek and current technology: Medical scanners, sensors, talking computers, personal communication devices, warp drive

PBS had an interesting show about Star Trek-like technology starting to appear in our daily lives. I think it was back in the flip phone era (communicators)

[whag]

Earth might be considered a place of exile, certainly: and (for a time) Satan rules Earth as its god, with the churches (i.e. the congregations of the faithful) being embassies.

Zero evidence of such.

If Satan is in time and space and can travel through the universe, his taking exile on a completely lifeless planet for three billion years suggests a singular lack of adventure and intelligence.

Perhaps he was playing Texas Hold Em with his minions during this period?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Obviously the moon landings developed from earlier fictional accounts including Jules Verne's From the Earth to the Moon and H. G. Wells' The First Men in the Moon

Stories of visiting the moon go back farther than that. Read Lucian of Samosata.

[rogue06]

Stories of visiting the moon go back farther than that. Read Lucian of Samosata.

Indeed. Even early scientists like Kepler tried his hand at it.

[Sparko]

Zero evidence of such.

If Satan is in time and space and can travel through the universe, his taking exile on a completely lifeless planet for three billion years suggests a singular lack of adventure and intelligence.

Perhaps he was playing Texas Hold Em with his minions during this period?

What makes you think it happened before humans? Perhaps Satan giving Eve the forbidden fruit was the initial "rebellion" event? After all that is when creation fell.

[tabibito]

It is also a reference to Satan. Double Entendre.

It is nothing of the sort
Lucifer (Latin: planet Venus) is not a name or title for Satan

It is a loose translation from the Hebrew ( הֵילֵל - someone or something of radiant splendour)
The Latin lucifer translates the Greek translation (εωσφορος) early light (dawn), (planet) Venus as the dawn star.
Lucifer is (in older English translations) used only once in the Old Testament. εωσφορος is thrice used: Job 11:17; 38:12 - early light (dawn), and Isaiah 14:12 - (son of the) dawn.

As an epithet, it is simply a term describing the position that the king had held with relation to God and God's favour.

φωσφορος is used in the NT. 2Peter 1:19, light bearer.carrier.

That is not an exhaustive investigation of the use and meaning φωσφορ~, εωσφορ~

[tabibito]

Zero evidence of such.

If Satan is in time and space and can travel through the universe, his taking exile on a completely lifeless planet for three billion years suggests a singular lack of adventure and intelligence.

Perhaps he was playing Texas Hold Em with his minions during this period?

Given that he had a place in heaven up until the events described in Revelation and alluded to by Luke, the timing would have been roughly two-thousand years ago, and the objection assumes that he would not have been stripped of the ability or opportunity to travel at will. Nor does getting exiled indicate that the exiled person chose anything - exile usually indicates a circumstance that is imposed. The circumstances indicate that self exile would not be on the table.

[whag]

What makes you think it happened before humans? Perhaps Satan giving Eve the forbidden fruit was the initial "rebellion" event?

The common Christian view is that Satan's fall occurred before Eden, setting up the narrative backdrop and flow of the story:

• Satan is a good and obedient servant
• Satan goes bad
• Satan is cast out of heaven as punishment
• Satan sabotages creation as revenge

After all that is when creation fell.

Creation didn’t fall. You keep saying this without explaining what a fallen creation looks like. It’s an assumption based on Christianity’s inability to process predation, disease, and calamity.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

What makes you think it happened before humans? Perhaps Satan giving Eve the forbidden fruit was the initial "rebellion" event? After all that is when creation fell.

Satan has nothing to do with Eve and any forbidden fruit. The serpent is not Satan.

Now the serpent was more crafty than any other wild animal that the Lord God had made.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

It is nothing of the sort
Lucifer (Latin: planet Venus) is not a name or title for Satan

It is a loose translation from the Hebrew ( הֵילֵל - someone or something of radiant splendour)
The Latin lucifer translates the Greek translation (εωσφορος) early light (dawn), (planet) Venus as the dawn star.
Lucifer is (in older English translations) used only once in the Old Testament. εωσφορος is thrice used: Job 11:17; 38:12 - early light (dawn), and Isaiah 14:12 - (son of the) dawn.

As an epithet, it is simply a term describing the position that the king had held with relation to God and God's favour.

φωσφορος is used in the NT. 2Peter 1:19, light bearer.carrier.

That is not an exhaustive investigation of the use and meaning φωσφορ~, εωσφορ~

The planet Venus as a rebellious figure is also implied in Ugaritic texts.