Redemption: Being saved or born again

[Sparko]

[QUOTE=tabibito;n1558210]

While I would agree, liberal "Christianity" is far more concerned with affirming and blessing sin so much that it has already fractured the Anglican and Methodist communions and is rapidly doing the same to the Roman communion.



Paul commented that there must be disputes so that those who are approved by God can be made known.
In the case of "women in the pulpit," the ones approved by God would seem to be those who declare the issue to be a matter of the individual congregation's collective conscience.





The verdict is said to have been for the charge of deceit, or of attempting to deceive the Holy Spirit. Is there some reason to doubt the record?



Interesting point.

Romans 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The ultimate outcome of belief is righteousness, and that of confession is salvation. (confession is a rendering of omologeo^e, "a verbal assent."
No talk there of faith being a guarantee of salvation - but rather, an action is required.
No talk either of faith being a sole requirement, not there, not in Acts 2:38 which requires repentance.


Then 2Peter 1:4-9, paying particular attention to verse 9.

Romans '6 propositions that the believer is able to live without sinning, and the reasons why.
Romans 7: objections to the propositions of Romans 6.
Romans 8: objections of chapter 7 refuted.

Romans 6:12-18 admonition to not allow sin to reign, but give sin no opportunity. Propositions: Sinning makes a person slave to sin. Believers were set free from sin: were formerly slaves of sin, were liberated from sin, became slaves of righteousness. The person who sins is no longer a slave of righteousness, but makes himself a slave of sin.
Romans 7 - "I am in the flesh and so unable to overcome sin."
Romans 8 - If the spirit of Christ is in you, you are not in the flesh.
Romans 8:13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Paul also said:

Romans 7:¹⁴ For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. ¹⁵ For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. ¹⁶ Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. ¹⁷ So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. ¹⁸ For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. ¹⁹ For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. ²⁰ Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Those comments are "squared" by the very fact that believers are still human, not yet perfected, still battle the sin nature, still sin, but we leave HABITUAL sin. We turn away from sinful lifestyles that we may have once held, but we get angry, we argue with each other, we argue with those who seek to trip us up, etc.

What is "HABITUAL sin"? Or are you referring to adultery, homosexuality, thieving and such like?

If so is that all it takes? Can a Christian continue to be arrogant, spiteful, unkind, or judgemental yet still be saved?

But the Spirit gives us recognition of those sins and we confess them. None of that removes our salvation.

Do you confess your sin each time you are unkind, spiteful, or resentful "in thought, or word or deed" towards another human being?

If a person claims to be a believer and continues living in a lifestyle that is contrary to God's word, then I have reason to question their faith.

Yet you admit that you commit sins.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

The thief on the cross believed and was told by the Lord that he would be with Him in Paradise. The thief did no works, wasn’t baptized, never helped the needy, but he did confess both his sin and his belief. That’s pretty clear cut and simple.

Perhaps you think the replies you are getting are confusing because the only one with a differing opinion on the subject in the thread is tabibito, and he’s unorthodox in his theology.

I would suggest that tabibito shows less arrogance in that regard.

As I, and Diogenes suspected, you aren’t here with a sincere question but are simply seeking, once again, to trip us up and create division. I have answered your questions and it isn’t my fault that you refuse to understand them.

As Diogenes said, go read a Bible instead of crap written by men who think just like you do.

Oh, and by the way, repent of your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

IMG_0704.jpeg

I am not sure such an eternity is overly appealing but thank you for the suggestion.

[Esther]

The short answer is: no.

1 John 5 is a good chapter to read ",,, so that you may know you have eternal life " vs 13,

Maybe Cow Poke can also pastor you a bit so that you can have assurance of your salvation. It is not your performance but what Jesus did on the cross that saves you and being born again is not merely a wiping clean of the slate. When you get born again you become a new creation! Old things have passed and behold all things are new!!

The only time a Christian should be worried about their salvation is if they are living in habitual sin and doing the things that are listed for those who will not inherit the kingdom of God.

[mossrose]

I would suggest that tabibito shows less arrogance in that regard.



I am not sure such an eternity is overly appealing but thank you for the suggestion.

Then you are quite welcome to your eternity.

You refuse to understand what I say, so I will leave you to it.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Then you are quite welcome to your eternity.

As you are to yours.

You refuse to understand what I say, so I will leave you to it.

On the contrary I am trying to comprehend comments you have made that are incompatible.

God's word is clear that His children can have assurance that "nothing can pluck them out of His hand".

That suggests that nothing the children do will lead to them being plucked from the deity's hand.

You also write:

All that is required of anyone is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and repent of their sin.

Yet you admit that you:

I know I still have the propensity to sin, and certainly do sin, in thought, word, or deed. As do all believers.

You also state:

Because scripture is also clear that "once saved always saved" does not give us license to sin. If a person thinks that they can continue to sin then they have a very poor understanding of scripture.

That statement contradicts the one above it.

As I said, if I could lose my salvation, I would.

Yet you evidently do not believe that you will despite your admission that you continue to sin "in thought, word, or deed. As do all believers."

[tabibito]

So you have no assurance of your salvation. Very sad.

I have a confident expectation of salvation, subject to Christ Jesus continuing to be my Lord. The elect, having been perfected, have the assurance of salvation.

[tabibito]

[QUOTE=Sparko;n1558405]

Paul also said:

Romans 7:¹⁴ For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. ¹⁵ For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. ¹⁶ Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. ¹⁷ So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. ¹⁸ For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. ¹⁹ For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. ²⁰ Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

Romans 6:18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. (proposition)

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. (objection)

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. (objection rebutted)




Romans 8:3-4

3... By sending his own Son ..., he condemned sin in the flesh,
4 so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

John 8:32 (NET2)
and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
John 8:36 (NET2)
So if the son sets you free, you will be really free.
Romans 6:14 (NET2)
For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace.
Romans 6:18 (NET2)
and having been freed from sin, you became enslaved to righteousness.
Romans 7:4 (NET2)
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God.

[whag]

The thief on the cross believed and was told by the Lord that he would be with Him in Paradise. The thief did no works, wasn’t baptized, never helped the needy, but he did confess both his sin and his belief. That’s pretty clear cut and simple.

Perhaps you think the replies you are getting are confusing because the only one with a differing opinion on the subject in the thread is tabibito, and he’s unorthodox in his theology.

As I, and Diogenes suspected, you aren’t here with a sincere question but are simply seeking, once again, to trip us up and create division. I have answered your questions and it isn’t my fault that you refuse to understand them.

As Diogenes said, go read a Bible instead of crap written by men who think just like you do.

Oh, and by the way, repent of your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

IMG_0704.jpeg

Why did you quote Spurgeon from a tweet? LOL

Jonathan Edwards said it better to scare his audience:

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment. It is to be ascribed to nothing else, that you did not go to hell the last night; that you were suffered to awake again in this world, after you closed your eyes to sleep. And there is no other reason to be given, why you have not dropped into hell since you arose in the morning, but that God’s hand has held you up. There is no other reason to be given why you have not gone to hell, since you have sat here in the house of God, provoking his pure eyes by your sinful wicked manner of attending his solemn worship. Yea, there is nothing else that is to be given as a reason why you do not this very moment drop down into hell.

All the people who converted after hearing this became Christians out of fear and superstition.

[mossrose]

Why did you quote Spurgeon from a tweet? LOL

Because that's where I found it.

Jonathan Edwards said it better to scare his audience:

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment. It is to be ascribed to nothing else, that you did not go to hell the last night; that you were suffered to awake again in this world, after you closed your eyes to sleep. And there is no other reason to be given, why you have not dropped into hell since you arose in the morning, but that God’s hand has held you up. There is no other reason to be given why you have not gone to hell, since you have sat here in the house of God, provoking his pure eyes by your sinful wicked manner of attending his solemn worship. Yea, there is nothing else that is to be given as a reason why you do not this very moment drop down into hell.

All the people who converted after hearing this became Christians out of fear and superstition.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Proverbs 9:10

[tabibito]

I would suggest that tabibito shows less arrogance in that regard.

Humility and arrogance aren't in play. It is merely an acknowledgement that "there aint no such thing as a free lunch." (Oft cited by Robert Heinlein, though in a different context.)

[Cow Poke]

I affirm the Virgin Birth and that Jesus is God.

[Cow Poke]

The thief on the cross believed and was told by the Lord that he would be with Him in Paradise. The thief did no works, wasn’t baptized, never helped the needy, but he did confess both his sin and his belief. That’s pretty clear cut and simple....

Again, Alistair Begg does such a good job on that...

[mossrose]

Again, Alistair Begg does such a good job on that...

Sadly, Begg has recently given bad advice which has lowered his esteem in many people's eyes.

[Cow Poke]

Sadly, Begg has recently given bad advice which has lowered his esteem in many people's eyes.

Yeah, I saw that.