According to Mark, Joseph was part of the same council that condemned Jesus to death. The later authors realized Mark's goof up and Matthew omits that Joseph was a member of the council while Luke says "he did not consent to their plan and action" which coincidentally contradicts Acts 13:27-29.
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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Who buried Jesus?
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostOnly the 15th of the first part Passover week it would not legal to buy and sell on that day (also the 21st).
Likewise the fact that when people made presentation to the proconsul, they didn't enter his house, so visiting him in the court weren't in violation of OT law anyway.Last edited by tabibito; 06-16-2017, 02:28 PM.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostOnly the 15th of the first part Passover week it would not legal to buy and sell on that day (also the 21st).
Exodus 12:16
"On the first day hold a sacred assembly, and another one on the seventh day. Do no work at all on these days, except to prepare food for everyone to eat; that is all you may do."
Leviticus 23:6-7
Nehemiah 10:31
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Mark -like all the other gospel writers - declares it was on the day of preparation.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostMark -like all the other gospel writers - declares it was on the day of preparation.
Mark 14:12 marks Thursday during the daytime.
Mark 14:17-18
"When it was evening, he came with the twelve. And when they had taken their places and were eating..."
"When it was evening" means Passover had begun as they are eating the Passover meal. Jewish "days" went from evening to evening. The next day (still Passover) Jesus' is sentenced to crucifixion, dies and is buried.Last edited by RhinestoneCowboy; 06-16-2017, 02:45 PM.
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Mark 14:17-18
"When it was evening, he came with the twelve. And when they had taken their places and were eating..."
"When it was evening" means Passover had begun as they are eating the Passover meal. Jewish "days" went from evening to evening. Jesus' is sentenced to crucifixion, dies and is buried all on Passover.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostYour problem arises because a day in Hebrew has two "evenings." The first is from start of day (6pm roughly) til last light. The second is day's end, 3pm to 6pm (roughly).
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Originally posted by Mark 15:42And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostAnd any holy day is a sabbath - there is the weekly sabbath, and another sabbath falling in the same week will be termed the second sabbath.
Mark 14:12 specifically says they ate the Passover (the night before Jesus was killed), and Mark 16:1 says that the Sabbath was the day after Jesus was killed. Mark has Jesus being arrested the night of Passover, with the trial the next morning (15:1) and then executed at the "third hour" (9am) and die at the 9th hour (3pm). This day (still the Passover) is specifically called "the day before the Sabbath" in 15:42. So Jesus eats on one evening, is crucified the next day, and the day after that is called the Sabbath.
John's Gospel, on the other hand, has Jesus crucified on the day before Passover most likely because he wants to use the theological image of Jesus being killed at the same time the lambs were being killed for the Passover.Last edited by RhinestoneCowboy; 06-16-2017, 03:01 PM.
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Originally posted by RhinestoneCowboy View PostNo, now you're being dishonest. Mark means the "Sabbath" as in Saturday.
Mark 14:12 specifically says they ate the Passover (the night before Jesus was killed), and Mark 15:1 says that the Sabbath was the day after Jesus was killed.
Mark has Jesus being arrested the night of Passover, with the trial the next morning (15:1) and then executed at the "third hour" (9am) and die at the 9th hour (3pm).
This day (still the Passover) is specifically called "the day before the Sabbath" in 15:42. So Jesus eats on one evening, is crucified the next day, and the day after that is called the Sabbath.
John's Gospel, on the other hand, has Jesus crucified on the day before Passover most likely because he wants to use the theological image of Jesus being killed at the same time the lambs were being killed for the Passover.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by RhinestoneCowboy View PostMark has Jesus crucified and buried on Passover. It was illegal to work or buy/sell things on Passover.
Exodus 12:16
"On the first day hold a sacred assembly, and another one on the seventh day. Do no work at all on these days, except to prepare food for everyone to eat; that is all you may do."
Leviticus 23:6-7
Nehemiah 10:31. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostMark 15:42 shows your estimation to be incorrect - the passover is to be eaten on the evening of the day of preparation. It doesn't say which of the evenings - the day's end to last light is the evening that occurs at the beginning of the day.
Mark 14:12
eat the Passover?
Mark 14:17-18
"When it was evening, he came with the twelve. And when they had taken their places and were eating (the Passover)..."
This indicates that Passover began the night before Jesus' trial, crucifixion, and burial. The Passover lasted until the following day at sundown.
Mark 15:42 explicitly states that is not so. "When evening was come - because it was the day before the sabbath."
καὶ ἤδη ὀψίας γενομένης ἐπεὶ ἦν παρασκευή ὅ ἐστιν προσάββατον
"And now when the evening had come, because it was the Preparation, that is the fore-sabbath [prosabbaton]."
The next day had not come, only the evening of the same day of the crucifixion. The opsios is the tail end of a day, not the beginning of a new day so it's still Passover.
NOT the weekly sabbath - any day declared holy to the lord is a sabbath, whether the weekly sabbath or any other. Sometimes "second sabbath" will be specified, but not necessarily.
There is no conflict with John's gospel on this point, except in your imagination.
two accounts cannot be reconciled.Last edited by RhinestoneCowboy; 06-16-2017, 05:20 PM.
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostJesus was buried after sunset which would be the 16th day of the feast of the Passover week, which would be our Thursday evening. Note this is my personal understanding according to the record. The Jewish days begin and end at evening (Mark 14:17; Mark 15:42). The 14th (Exodus 12:6, 18) was the day before (Mark 14:12)Jesus was crucified by the Romans (the Jewish day of the 15th). Joseph had to wait for sundown to ask for the body of Jesus (the 16th Mark 15:42).
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Originally posted by RhinestoneCowboy View PostAre you even capable of responding with something that surpasses the level of puerile?
Not that that will stop you."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
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We're getting into silliness now. Jesus would have been left up on the cross until after the Sabbath was over. And he probably didn't die as quickly as the gospels claim that he did.
Again, there were no disciples there to witness any of this. So whatever information they got came from hearsay. They have absolutely no way of knowing how long it took for him to die.
That's why they cite the women going to the tomb - they don't have a better source of information other than that Mary went to look for his grave and couldn't find it. It's plausible that happened, but really that's just one of many ways the empty tomb myth could have began. If it did happen, then I think it would have been several weeks later not a few days later, and Jesus had been buried in an unidentified grave and they just couldn't find it.
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