Who buried Jesus?

[RhinestoneCowboy]

According to Mark, Joseph was part of the same council that condemned Jesus to death. The later authors realized Mark's goof up and Matthew omits that Joseph was a member of the council while Luke says "he did not consent to their plan and action" which coincidentally contradicts Acts 13:27-29.

[tabibito]

Only the 15th of the first part Passover week it would not legal to buy and sell on that day (also the 21st).

The fact that the purchase was made, and the burial conducted, on the day of preparation (the last day before passover) - shortly before end of day - seems to have escaped his notice.
Likewise the fact that when people made presentation to the proconsul, they didn't enter his house, so visiting him in the court weren't in violation of OT law anyway.

[RhinestoneCowboy]

Only the 15th of the first part Passover week it would not legal to buy and sell on that day (also the 21st).

Mark has Jesus crucified and buried on Passover. It was illegal to work or buy/sell things on Passover.

Exodus 12:16
"On the first day hold a sacred assembly, and another one on the seventh day. Do no work at all on these days, except to prepare food for everyone to eat; that is all you may do."

Leviticus 23:6-7


Nehemiah 10:31

[tabibito]

Mark -like all the other gospel writers - declares it was on the day of preparation.

[RhinestoneCowboy]

Mark -like all the other gospel writers - declares it was on the day of preparation.

Preparation day before the Sabbath i.e. Passover.

Mark 14:12 marks Thursday during the daytime.



Mark 14:17-18
"When it was evening, he came with the twelve. And when they had taken their places and were eating..."

"When it was evening" means Passover had begun as they are eating the Passover meal. Jewish "days" went from evening to evening. The next day (still Passover) Jesus' is sentenced to crucifixion, dies and is buried.

[tabibito]

Mark 14:17-18
"When it was evening, he came with the twelve. And when they had taken their places and were eating..."

"When it was evening" means Passover had begun as they are eating the Passover meal. Jewish "days" went from evening to evening. Jesus' is sentenced to crucifixion, dies and is buried all on Passover.

Your problem arises because a day in Hebrew has two "evenings." The first is from start of day (6pm roughly) til last light. The second is day's end, 3pm to 6pm (roughly).

[RhinestoneCowboy]

Your problem arises because a day in Hebrew has two "evenings." The first is from start of day (6pm roughly) til last light. The second is day's end, 3pm to 6pm (roughly).

There's no problem. Passover begins Thursday evening and goes until Friday evening. John is the one that contradicts this chronology because he has all the events happening the day before the Passover.

[tabibito]

And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus

And any holy day is a sabbath - there is the weekly sabbath, and another sabbath falling in the same week will be termed the second sabbath. The day of preparation IS the day before Passover.

[RhinestoneCowboy]

And any holy day is a sabbath - there is the weekly sabbath, and another sabbath falling in the same week will be termed the second sabbath.

No, now you're being dishonest. Mark means the "Sabbath" as in Saturday. The whole reason Mark has Joseph rush to bury Jesus is because it's about to be the Sabbath.

Mark 14:12 specifically says they ate the Passover (the night before Jesus was killed), and Mark 16:1 says that the Sabbath was the day after Jesus was killed. Mark has Jesus being arrested the night of Passover, with the trial the next morning (15:1) and then executed at the "third hour" (9am) and die at the 9th hour (3pm). This day (still the Passover) is specifically called "the day before the Sabbath" in 15:42. So Jesus eats on one evening, is crucified the next day, and the day after that is called the Sabbath.

John's Gospel, on the other hand, has Jesus crucified on the day before Passover most likely because he wants to use the theological image of Jesus being killed at the same time the lambs were being killed for the Passover.

[tabibito]

No, now you're being dishonest. Mark means the "Sabbath" as in Saturday.

Mark 14:12 specifically says they ate the Passover (the night before Jesus was killed), and Mark 15:1 says that the Sabbath was the day after Jesus was killed.

Mark 15:42 shows your estimation to be incorrect - the passover is to be eaten on the evening of the day of preparation. It doesn't say which of the evenings - the day's end to last light is the evening that occurs at the beginning of the day.

Mark has Jesus being arrested the night of Passover, with the trial the next morning (15:1) and then executed at the "third hour" (9am) and die at the 9th hour (3pm).

Mark 15:42 explicitly states that is not so. "When evening was come - because it was the day before the sabbath."

This day (still the Passover) is specifically called "the day before the Sabbath" in 15:42. So Jesus eats on one evening, is crucified the next day, and the day after that is called the Sabbath.

NOT the weekly sabbath - any day declared holy to the lord is a sabbath, whether the weekly sabbath or any other. Sometimes "second sabbath" will be specified, but not necessarily.

John's Gospel, on the other hand, has Jesus crucified on the day before Passover most likely because he wants to use the theological image of Jesus being killed at the same time the lambs were being killed for the Passover.

There is no conflict with John's gospel on this point, except in your imagination.

[37818]

Mark has Jesus crucified and buried on Passover. It was illegal to work or buy/sell things on Passover.

Exodus 12:16
"On the first day hold a sacred assembly, and another one on the seventh day. Do no work at all on these days, except to prepare food for everyone to eat; that is all you may do."

Leviticus 23:6-7


Nehemiah 10:31

Jesus was buried after sunset which would be the 16th day of the feast of the Passover week, which would be our Thursday evening. Note this is my personal understanding according to the record. The Jewish days begin and end at evening (Mark 14:17; Mark 15:42). The 14th (Exodus 12:6, 18) was the day before (Mark 14:12)Jesus was crucified by the Romans (the Jewish day of the 15th). Joseph had to wait for sundown to ask for the body of Jesus (the 16th Mark 15:42).

[RhinestoneCowboy]

Mark 15:42 shows your estimation to be incorrect - the passover is to be eaten on the evening of the day of preparation. It doesn't say which of the evenings - the day's end to last light is the evening that occurs at the beginning of the day.

As already demonstrated:

Mark 14:12
eat the Passover?

Mark 14:17-18
"When it was evening, he came with the twelve. And when they had taken their places and were eating (the Passover)..."

This indicates that Passover began the night before Jesus' trial, crucifixion, and burial. The Passover lasted until the following day at sundown.

Mark 15:42 explicitly states that is not so. "When evening was come - because it was the day before the sabbath."

"When evening was come" (opsios) is not sundown, but the period late in the day before sundown 3-6pm or 6pm to sundown. The opsios comes on the Day of Preparation:

καὶ ἤδη ὀψίας γενομένης ἐπεὶ ἦν παρασκευή ὅ ἐστιν προσάββατον

"And now when the evening had come, because it was the Preparation, that is the fore-sabbath [prosabbaton]."

The next day had not come, only the evening of the same day of the crucifixion. The opsios is the tail end of a day, not the beginning of a new day so it's still Passover.

NOT the weekly sabbath - any day declared holy to the lord is a sabbath, whether the weekly sabbath or any other. Sometimes "second sabbath" will be specified, but not necessarily.

If Mark just intended to depict a regular holy day then what's the rush for getting Jesus off the cross? The whole point is to bury Jesus before the Sabbath because burials weren't allowed then! Why would you need a "Preparation Day" for anything other than the weekly Sabbath?

There is no conflict with John's gospel on this point, except in your imagination.

Yes, there is. Mark has Jesus crucified and buried on Passover while John 19:14 says "Now it was the day of Preparation for the Passover; and it was about noon" indicating it was the day before Passover. These
two accounts cannot be reconciled.

[RhinestoneCowboy]

Jesus was buried after sunset which would be the 16th day of the feast of the Passover week, which would be our Thursday evening. Note this is my personal understanding according to the record. The Jewish days begin and end at evening (Mark 14:17; Mark 15:42). The 14th (Exodus 12:6, 18) was the day before (Mark 14:12)Jesus was crucified by the Romans (the Jewish day of the 15th). Joseph had to wait for sundown to ask for the body of Jesus (the 16th Mark 15:42).

Passover lasted until sundown and began the night before when Jesus eats the Passover meal - Mark 14:17. Passover day (when Jesus is tried, executed, and buried) is explicitly referred to as the "Preparation Day before the Sabbath" - Mark 15:42 (Friday evening).

[Teallaura]

Are you even capable of responding with something that surpasses the level of puerile?

Um, you'd have to post something that wasn't puerile to test that theory. Otherwise, he's just answering in kind - and you've no grounds for complaint.

Not that that will stop you.

[Aractus]

We're getting into silliness now. Jesus would have been left up on the cross until after the Sabbath was over. And he probably didn't die as quickly as the gospels claim that he did.

Again, there were no disciples there to witness any of this. So whatever information they got came from hearsay. They have absolutely no way of knowing how long it took for him to die.

That's why they cite the women going to the tomb - they don't have a better source of information other than that Mary went to look for his grave and couldn't find it. It's plausible that happened, but really that's just one of many ways the empty tomb myth could have began. If it did happen, then I think it would have been several weeks later not a few days later, and Jesus had been buried in an unidentified grave and they just couldn't find it.