Best argument for atheism, "I hate the cold!"
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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The 'best' arguments for atheism and Christianity
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Originally posted by 37818 View Post.First off, I do know God. And for that reason I cannot be an atheist.And even though God is in fact self evident, without Christ no one can know God.What logical argument can you make to show there is no God?
The mere denial that the Uncaused Existence is God is nothing more than just a denial.Here is something I do not believe you can do> Give the genuine explanation of the gospel of grace - correctly. Here is why: If you could you would become a believer.Last edited by Tassman; 11-29-2017, 11:28 PM.
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostMy argument is not refuted.But mere denial is does not refute that God's primary fundamental identity is the Self-Existent, the Who Is, which I have referred to as the Uncaused Existence, which He is.
Denying what and who God is does not make it so.
I do not care if you don't.
What matters is knowing God. What and who He is.
And not knowing God is the Uncaused Existence does not change who He is. The only why anyone can know Him is through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
Atheism can not refute God, but only deny.
- If God exists He is uncaused existence
- If uncaused existence exists it need not be God, unless (and this your burden) you can show that uncaused existence has all defining qualities that God has, and not just being uncaused existence
- Being/having uncaused existence alone does not make an entity God.
- If the uncaused existence is not God, then God does not exist.
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Originally posted by crepuscule View Post
- If uncaused existence exists it need not be God, unless (and this your burden) you can show that uncaused existence has all defining qualities that God has, and not just being uncaused existence. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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What definitive argument or evidence do you have by which you can know that the self Existent Uncaused Existence cannot possibly be God? Otherwise what you think of my knowing God is nothing more than an ad hominem on your part.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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I'm not sure this works...
Originally posted by crepuscule View PostIf God exists He is uncaused existence
Originally posted by crepuscule View PostIf uncaused existence exists it need not be God, unless (and this your burden) you can show that uncaused existence has all defining qualities that God has, and not just being uncaused existence.
Originally posted by crepuscule View PostBeing/having uncaused existence alone does not make an entity God.
Originally posted by crepuscule View PostIf the uncaused existence is not God, then God does not exist.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostIs space not a thing? Why or why not? God is not space, yet the Apostle Paul said, ". . . For in Him we live, and move, and have our being, . . ."
Of course, my physics is a coupke decades old, so I may not be up to speed on the latest/greatest...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostSetting aside the religious theme at the end (about which I have no comment as it lies outside my belief system), the first question interests me. I do not know what you mean by "thing." My understanding of both space and time is that they are relationships. Time is the relationship between event, and space the relationship between instances of matter and/or energy. They are not "things" in the same way that a "table" is a thing, but they "exist" as relational dimensions.
Of course, my physics is a coupke decades old, so I may not be up to speed on the latest/greatest...
Traditional physics, as I understand it, their equations generally treat time as absolute. Making corrections based on gravity and relative motions. Rates of time being relative.
Now I think I did not say anything you did not already have some kind of understanding of.
As for God, He is regarded as omnipresent. So in that regard, there would not be anything not in God's presence.
I am of the view that God is the uncaused reality in which all other things have their existence. That God is knowable and the God of the Bible are other issues about God.Last edited by 37818; 12-09-2017, 02:17 PM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostSpace and time and matter(rest mass) and energy(electromagnetic) are interrelated. They can be considered things. Those things, as such, I would not regard as God. We see and measure space by the objects in space. Distance, time, mass and energy while interrelated are relative.
Traditional physics, as I understand it, their equations generally treat time as absolute. Making corrections based on gravity and relative motions. Rates of time being relative.
Now I think I did not say anything you did not already have some kind of understanding of.
As for God, He is regarded as omnipresent. So in that regard, there would not be anything not in God's presence.
I am of the view that God is the uncaused reality in which all other things have their existence. That God is knowable and the God of the Bible are other issues about God.
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostSpace and time and matter(rest mass) and energy(electromagnetic) are interrelated. They can be considered things. Those things, as such, I would not regard as God. We see and measure space by the objects in space. Distance, time, mass and energy while interrelated are relative.
Traditional physics, as I understand it, their equations generally treat time as absolute. Making corrections based on gravity and relative motions. Rates of time being relative.
Now I think I did not say anything you did not already have some kind of understanding of.
Originally posted by 37818 View PostAs for God, He is regarded as omnipresent. So in that regard, there would not be anything not in God's presence.
I am of the view that God is the uncaused reality in which all other things have their existence. That God is knowable and the God of the Bible are other issues about God.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYes - but I think you err in considering time a "constant." Relativity tells us that mass can warp both space AND time, rendering them less than "absolute" in their measurement.
. . . Making corrections based on gravity and relative motions. Rates of time being relative.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYes - but I think you err in considering time a "constant." Relativity tells us that mass can warp both space AND time, rendering them less than "absolute" in their measurement.
I am aware of your beliefs, 37818. I once shared them (or at least an approximation of them). I was mostly interested in the observation about space (and, as it turns out, time) as "things." I am fairly sure we won't see eye to eye on the god issue, but if you want to discuss, I am willing.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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