Do Christian infants get to Heaven? Do all infants get to Heaven?

[Diogenes]

But would Calvin's belief be correct?

I don't believe the issue is either clearly judicable nor that significant to warrant disbelief. I would probably lean on the side of Calvin being incorrect due to things such as God allowing the ignorant children of the rebellious Israelites to enter into the Promised Land in Deuteronomy 1:39.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I don't believe the issue is either clearly judicable nor that significant to warrant disbelief. I would probably lean on the side of Calvin being incorrect due to things such as God allowing the ignorant children of the rebellious Israelites to enter into the Promised Land in Deuteronomy 1:39.

You appear remarkably confident in the historicity of that text. Given your areligious position, do you never question these texts?

[Diogenes]

You appear remarkably confident in the historicity of that text. Given your areligious position, do you never question these texts?

Given that the question of infant salvation assumes the biblical text, the historicity of the text is irrelevant to the question. The text is also not the sole reason I would likley side against Calvin on this point and I also stated "I don't believe the issue is either clearly judicable nor that significant to warrant disbelief." The issue of infant salvation is not that important in the grand scheme of Christianity. If Calvin would be correct, then what of it? Deus vult!

[eider]

Typically the "age of accountability" is brought into the consideration regarding infant death and salvation. That is rather rudimentary point of discussion regarding the topic of infants going to heaven.

It would be useful if you could show where Jesus mentioned 'age of accountability' regarding infant death and salvation?

Neither salvation nor grace are license to sin. Again, a rather rudimentary point you seem not to grasp.

Please could you show where Jesus mentioned anything about 'Neither salvation nor grace are license to sin' ?

Fortunately, God is not subject to your concept of who deserves admission into Heaven. In themselves, works are not redemptory, again, this is rudimentary.

Christian ideas about admission to Heaven seem to vary...... by predestination, by grace, by good works..... and maybe others......

Why do you think deserves admission to Heaven? .Is your God subject to your concepts about this?

[eider]

The one as described in the Orthodox Tewahedo biblical canon and by the Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church, obviously.

Does that publication make mention of what Jesus said and did?

[eider]

Obviously. Calvin would simply say non-elect infants would not go to Heaven.

So far I haven't read any post which clearly tells that any infants would gain entry to heaven.

[eider]

The issue of infant salvation is not that important in the grand scheme of Christianity.

But you don't know what to believe about Christianity...correct?

And so I would need to read such a claim written by the many Christian churches out there, and denominations.

Your opinions can't speak for Christianity, can they?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Given that the question of infant salvation assumes the biblical text, the historicity of the text is irrelevant to the question. The text is also not the sole reason I would likley side against Calvin on this point and I also stated "I don't believe the issue is either clearly judicable nor that significant to warrant disbelief." The issue of infant salvation is not that important in the grand scheme of Christianity. If Calvin would be correct, then what of it? Deus vult!

What specific bible text makes reference to infant baptism? And as you have noted, does any of it really matter?

[tabibito]

Please could you show where Jesus mentioned anything about 'Neither salvation nor grace are license to sin' ?

Matt 5:20 (note that the scribes and pharisees in context are the good ones: it makes no sense to set "the lowest of the low" as the benchmark. The audience as a whole (which is to say: there would be exceptions), also would have held scribes and pharisees in high regard, and interpreted the statement according to that understanding. A couple of paragraphs (at least) would probably be needed to provide proper detail.

Matthew 7: 22-23. Most of the references where Jesus addresses the issue are couched in parable.

There are also scattered references throughout the New Testament: Acts 10:34-35 for example.

Christian ideas about admission to Heaven seem to vary...... by predestination, by grace, by good works..... and maybe others......

Predestined only means you have bought the ticket: you're not even on the plane yet. Grace is extended to those who do what is right (Acts 10:34-35). Good works are useful, but by themselves not enough to secure salvation; likewise belief.

[Diogenes]

What specific bible text makes reference to infant baptism?

Baptism per se isn't salvific, for infants or adults.

And as you have noted, does any of it really matter?

When I said it wasn't important in the grand scheme of things, I meant that within Christianity, infant salvation is not high in doctrinal importance.

[Diogenes]

Christian ideas about admission to Heaven seem to vary...... by predestination, by grace, by good works..... and maybe others......

In forming my view of Christianity, I don't particularly care what ideas Christians have but rather what best conforms to the Bible (including arguments for which canon to be used). Works obviously aren't salvific but are rather fruit of the Holy Spirit. I do think that predestination is biblical but I don't believe humans can know who are among those predestined.

Why do you think deserves admission to Heaven? .Is your God subject to your concepts about this?

Quite obviously God would not be beholden to any of my opinions. The idea of Heaven being some kind of reward for a life on Earth and therefore could be earned or deserved is quite erroneous in regard to Christianity and, in a more general sense, mostly an existential coping mechanism.

[tabibito]

Works obviously aren't salvific but are rather fruit of the Holy Spirit.

On the face of it, the claim seems unlikely - what grounds do you see as being persuasive?

I do think that predestination is biblical but I don't believe humans can know who are among those predestined.

Near as I can tell, in very broad brushstrokes only, those who do not believe are pre-destined for not-heaven (just in case there is more than one option), those who believe are pre-destined for heaven. Members of either group are free to change their bookings.

[Diogenes]

On the face of it, the claim seems unlikely - what grounds do you see as being persuasive?

It's unlikely that works aren't salvific?

Near as I can tell, in very broad brushstrokes only, those who do not believe are pre-destined for not-heaven (just in case there is more than one option), those who believe are pre-destined for heaven. Members of either group are free to change their bookings.

I'm more of a Calvinist persuasion that those who will be saved is already determined and that, by extension, those who will not be saved is already determined.

[tabibito]

It's unlikely that works aren't salvific?

Definitely.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Baptism per se isn't salvific, for infants or adults.



When I said it wasn't important in the grand scheme of things, I meant that within Christianity, infant salvation is not high in doctrinal importance.

Baptism was the means of initiation into Paul's religion.