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If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Are You A Good Man....
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Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-22-2017, 03:25 PM.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
But, but, but . . . there is where we have a problem here.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostWhy? Is it unjust or immoral for God to take back the life He gave?
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Originally posted by seer View PostYes and you can kill a living child and call it altruistic. I'm sure that the Maoist and Stalinist believed they were serving the greater good! Your definitions are arbitrary and therefore meaningless.
Incidentally, your face is arbitrary and therefore meaningless. Sorry, you set yourself up for that one."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostMorality is absolute according to you. And if it's absolute then it applies to the deity too
So when you hand him a simple explanation like "humans are social animals, so they put a lot of effort into trying to judge the motives and intentions of others, particularly with regard to whether other humans are acting altruistically or selfishly, and they regularly use the term 'morality' to refer to altruism", Seer struggles to cope. Because people's levels of altruism is something that can be measured and discussed by scientists, and something that can exist in different cultures, and something humans throughout history have talked about with words like "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and "love your neighbor as yourself", and that all societies in human history due to being societies -which by definition involve people working together and interacting- have been concerned about the levels altruism or selfishness of the people in their midst, it is objective/inter-subjective in a way that Seer wishes morality wasn't as he prefers his arbitrary my-imaginary-God-has-a-big-stick morality. And this objectively measurable morality of altruism, that has been pervasive in human history, that doesn't rely on the arbitrary whims of a deity, and most of all doesn't rely on the deity threatening people with a big stick, scares Seer because he knows it would rate him as a pretty bad person.Last edited by Starlight; 03-22-2017, 09:47 PM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostHis "morality" is just that God has the biggest stick: If you don't do what God wants he'll hit you with it, but God can do what he likes because nobody can hit God back. So if you swapped God and Satan around and Satan was the one with the bigger stick, then what is now "evil" would be "good" and what is now "good" would be "evil", or if you swapped out Yahweh and put in Allah then they'd be a different set of "good" and "evil" again, and Seer seems to be deeply deeply troubled by the arbitrary nature of this morality so he does a loooot of projection in this forum by accusing other people's morality of being arbitrary.
So when you hand him a simple explanation like "humans are social animals, so they put a lot of effort into trying to judge the motives and intentions of others, particularly with regard to whether other humans are acting altruistically or selfishly, and they regularly use the term 'morality' to refer to altruism", Seer struggles to cope. Because people's levels of altruism is something that can be measured and discussed by scientists, and something that can exist in different cultures, and something humans throughout history have talked about with words like "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and "love your neighbor as yourself", and that all societies in human history due to being societies -which by definition involve people working together and interacting- have been concerned about the levels altruism or selfishness of the people in their midst, it is objective/inter-subjective in a way that Seer wishes morality wasn't as he prefers his arbitrary my-imaginary-God-has-a-big-stick morality. And this objectively measurable morality of altruism, that has been pervasive in human history, that doesn't rely on the arbitrary whims of a deity, and most of all doesn't rely on the deity threatening people with a big stick, scares Seer because he knows it would rate him as a pretty bad person.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostMorality is absolute according to you. And if it's absolute then it applies to the deity tooAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by JimL View PostIf it is immoral to take a life, and as you say, god is the standard of that morality, then yes it would be immoral for god to take a life, otherwise your moral standard is willy nilly, and not a standard at all.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostThis post is like the perfect exemplar of seer-assertions. Where you don't try and construct a reasoned argument, but just repeat your same-old dumb assertions over and over.
Incidentally, your face is arbitrary and therefore meaningless. Sorry, you set yourself up for that one.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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LOL! Like the UN is dealing with abuses of power in Muslim countries? In China? You really are deluded Tass...Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostHis "morality" is just that God has the biggest stick: If you don't do what God wants he'll hit you with it, but God can do what he likes because nobody can hit God back. So if you swapped God and Satan around and Satan was the one with the bigger stick, then what is now "evil" would be "good" and what is now "good" would be "evil", or if you swapped out Yahweh and put in Allah then they'd be a different set of "good" and "evil" again, and Seer seems to be deeply deeply troubled by the arbitrary nature of this morality so he does a loooot of projection in this forum by accusing other people's morality of being arbitrary.
But Starlight would be the guy reading the owners manual: "Use 6 quarts of oil" and his response would be "Wow, those pushy engineers at Ford and threatening and everything."Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostIf the engineers at Ford design an engine to power the new Bronco and that engine takes 6 quarts of oil in order to run efficiently then 'good' would be providing the engine with 6 quarts of oil and 'evil' would be providing 4 quarts of bacon grease. The engineers at Ford aren't hitting anyone with a stick and right and wrong for the engine isn't a matter of whether the bacon grease guy has a bigger stick. The 'good' and 'evil' in this situation are built into the design of the engine - there is no power play, no threats, nothing arbitrary or confusing and certainly nothing malevolent on the part of the Ford engineers.
I'm 100% all for doing what works. That's what makes me so interested in politics, and economics, and positive psychology, etc, because it's important to learn what works, and learn what makes people happy, in order to be able to turn a desire to act altruistically into successful altruistic actions. It's all well and good to have a desire to help others, but knowing what works and what doesn't is essential to being able to put that desire into practice. That's why careful scientific study of what works in societies and in people's lives and what doesn't is so important. That's why I could give you a two hour lecture off the top of my head about what is scientifically known about human happiness, the definitions of it, the causes of it, and how it can be increased... because I care about altruism I study topics relating to improving people's lives and improving society in detail.Last edited by Starlight; 03-23-2017, 07:49 AM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
But Starlight would be the guy reading the owners manual: "Use 6 quarts of oil" and his response would be "Wow, those pushy engineers at Ford and threatening and everything."That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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